Dwayne Bravo retires from Test Cricket

Mail I do not dislike Bravo and Pollard ... I have never disliked them, however I do dislike them walking out on the India tour and I am not alone in sharing that view.  In my opinion, the players would've gotten the same result (receiving contracts pre-tour) if they had made a stand on their return to the Caribbean post India/pre SA tour by refusing to go to RSA.

Re cricketing considerations ... are you taking into consideration their recent performances?  Those who share the view that they are being victimized, are talking as if Bravo and Pollard have consistently done well in the 50-over game recently, as if they have been making regular, sterling contributions to the team effort.

Their recent record does not support this....... just my 2 cents 

Sometimes, it is difficult to get one's point of view across on a message board without being misconstrued  .  Chairman we need better icons !!! 

I much prefer the players with flair and character to the meeky, meeky ones and especially luv the Caribbean 'calypso' flair ........ but hey it has to be backed up by numbers .... as it was in the victory days !!!  I guess some of us still use those days as a yard stick 

... and by the way ... what I wouldn't do for a buss up shut right now !!! ;D

you see this here...this neglects the fact that a collusion took place between the head of the players union and the head of wicb that reduced the players significantly and without their consent or input.  the nastiness of Skameron overall included that.  that was central and he refused to debate, to turn back and held onto that bad deal as the basis of everything.  even the BCCI knew that was wrong and wondered if Skameron was a mad man.  that is why they are working to get rid of him as wicb president and he is in Dubai now begging them to relent, to give him another chance.

I repeat:  tactically, historically, the adversarial relationship between the board and the players... there was no reason at all for the players not to walk out.  indeed staying was tantamount to turning the other cheek, acting against themselves, killing their own chances, proving that they were weak and inviting the board to worse to them because they would not stand and fight.  they would have been giving the the wicb the option to slap them again without fear of retaliation..to slap their other  cheek as consistently as they have slapping the one exposed to them all the time. 

why is it that labour is always wrong when labour takes action but management is never wrong when it brutalizes those who work ?  why must it always be labour  who must make the concessions with its own interest, when management already has every thing and is responsible for the confrontation in the first place that some people want labour to compromise and carry on for.  why must it be labour who must compromise again and again?

it is as if the players have everything and that management has nothing.. and so the players are greedy and rotten and must compromise for things to go well.  the truth is the situation is the other way around.  Everything is in managements hands, and the players must fight even to get a contract spelling out what they are due for work BEFORE they do the dam work!  they are expected to work for years and years and dot have no contracts, money is late, late, late, even years later.

managements finger is always in the players collective eye. the wicb never does it jobs relative to keeping things on an even keel and advancing.  the wicb is at war with the players but they players are not at war with the wicb

the players have to fight for everything..even some dam videos of the opposition so they can know thoe they play against and make some kind of effective planes to deal with them.

WHY SHUD BRAVO POLLARD AND THE REST NOT HAVE WALKED...WHY, WHY, WHY WHY...UNLESS THEY DECIDED TO SACRICIE THEMSELVES FOR THE WICB.  BYT WHY WOULD OR SHOULD THEY DO THAT..WHAT WOULD IT IMPROVE, WHAT WOULD THEY EARN FROM MORE SACRIFICE.

IT MADE NO SENSE AT ALL AT THIS STAGE FOR ANY MORE SACRIFICE..NONE AT ALL.

when comes to the players perfomance that is the fault of the wicb.  they have degraded the players discourage youngsters who may want to play cricket chose other sports instead.  the wicb is always in bacchanal with the players, they have to go to court and litigate to get their just due.  who wants to play cricket under those circumstances

but right here right now my case is that there is no valid reason for anyone at all to beat up on Bravo and Pollard.  none at all.  there is no valid case against them for walking.  the players should have confronted the wicb long ago.

there is no reason for any right minded west indian to beat up on the players in this case.  none at all.  that is my argument.  what allyuh want is blood next that's what.  they should have walked and they did walk and I will defend them to hell and back because they are right period.  not walking would just have helped the rotten wicb to get away with murder. there is no other option or mitigation or ameliorative in the situation.  they were right, are right and all benefited from their action.  and that's that.

they players did the right thing, got some positive results.  Bravo and Pollard can go on with their lives without the dam wicb while it slides deeper into the pot of crap of their own making..those disgusting traitors who have sold out the region to the BCCI.

there is no reason at all to beat up on Bravo and Pollard..especially relative to this issue.  they do their best as players,  if they have not been good enough it is not to beat up on them for that but to recognize their quality and look for better players.  but we blame them for being what they are..not being good enough...and  dat is nonsense

You have followed Cricket for a considerable period and you will know that this contract issue is not  a new one and enough is enough.

Would you turn up to work not knowing what your emoluments are?

For me what is disappointing in this entire episode is the focus on Bravo and Pollard when really the WICB was once again employing their bullying tactics.

I am no great fans of either chaps but they were not the only one in the walk out, were they?

Sammy was very prominent in standing behind Bravo and his record is piss poor but he is in the team.

So if Lloyd wanted scorched earth then be consistent.

He also selects a man averaging 18 in ODIs.

So for me it is consistency in applying those principles.

You will find that Bravo, in 13 games in 2014, averaged 46 with the bat and was in the ICC ODI team of the year! He also took 20 wickets average 24 and a SR of 26! in the same period Sammy averaged 21 with the bat, took 4 wickets at an average of 42 and a SR of 54! So where is the consistency?

In 2014 Pollard averaged just under 30 with the bat and brings a lot in the field.

Now if you are telling me many of the current tour party have much better recent records then I am happy to listen.

It seems strange you have a Captain in November and not in the next series!

Lloyd made some silly excuses about he did not have a chance to see Bravo perform but that applies to other players as well.

West Indies is mediocre and amongst the mediocrity, these two are amongst the very best.

OK so I am happy to change direction, as this is essential at times, but be consistent in your reasoning and application thereof!

In terms of the Indian walk out, I would have preferred it did not happen but it was  a necessary evil to change an age old problem and improve Industrial relations including workers rights to strike and the notice period required etc.

So my position is less to do with the people rather the equity in appplying the criteria Lloyd outlined.

Very good points MAPPIPPEE!

Picking on the result of the problem and not the problem itself!

No one wants to see any team walk out but objectivity should set in and this is what I am failing to see.

Smith piss poor overall but averaged mid 30s in 2014, selected!

Yes overall Bravo and Pollard, particularly the latter, have average records but good 2014 and they are out.

I ask how many have better records when you look at their overall game.

Then why offer a retainer contract to Bravo?

Is that because as a contracted player the WICB gets compensated when playing Franchise cricket?

well sure..there has to be some benefit for contracting Bravo while leaving him out.  Bravo earns and earns!

your pionts are also well made.  its a simple straightforward case.  it seem the problem of elitism is not confined to the wicb boardrooms but resides here to on Krishna's board.

some criticize the wicb be all the time but expect it to reform itself apparently.  how are we to reform it if we do not fight it it?  and when others fight it we wish they had not done so, but stayed and accommodated themselves to the crap. 

man what the hell kind of something is that ::confused:: ::confused:: ::confused:: ::confused::

I think it is a shame to see any cricket player retire so long from any form. Dwayne Bravo has been one of those guys who regularly performed for West Indies over the years. Yes he is been in and out of form and the side, however these have been turbulent times for West Indian Cricket and they need some mentoring from the more experienced players for sure. I have never really understood why players require from certain forms, it's almost as though they have been told they won't be selected anymore so they make it as a "retirement". Anyway hoping to see Dwayne feature in some upcoming T20 or something following the World Cup.

Dwayne Bravo as a personality would not have been out of place in LLoyd's side..especially the Packer side.  the problem with Bravo is that he is not a Tom but an individual who tends to being his own man.  Pollard too.  they may not be great players but they are strong individuals who think for themselves and are capable of action on their conclusions..of strong response disciplined by their self interest.  and they can work with and lead others for collective, class based purpose..in opposition to the established way, and establishment.

that is what has been discovered about Big Bravo and Kieron Pollard.  in the west indies that type of person is not loved at all by the establishment. they will always have hard time once discovered.  if you are not discovered as that type you can get along well.  but once you demonstrate that kind of make-up life gets hard for you..real hard.

the west indian people have been taught to fear and hate that type of person.  such people are 'condescending' to use the west indian derogative term, uppity, too smart and must be feared.

luckily for Bravo and Pollard they are well set in life an cannot be hurt by official clandestine destabilization.  they lose their west indian places but so what.  no self respecting west indian wants to be in the wicb mess once they can avoid it.  west indian cricket, wicb cricket, is a sh!t shot, crap shoot, house of crap... since 1995 when the black/brown marse took over.

and now that I talk about the issue this way I think I am getting closer to why some people here don't like Pollard and Bravo..Ketchim in particular. ketchim is generally hard on black men but he is awfully hard on Bravo and Pollard..which cant be explained save we go in these directions.  Ketchim's dislike could quite well be due to what has been discovered about the  make up of Bravo and Polard as tough and strong black men, capable of independent/collective thought and leadership action in their own best interest, and in the general interest.

for example..Sammy's behavior here continues to be reprehensible and Tommish.  he joined the boys in revolt yet he has been selected while they have  been banished.  well what does that suggest then:

that Sammy was a spy who was the wicb man in the revolt..probably set up to do so by the board, to spy on it, to misdirect and dilute its focus if and when the time came.  whatever the fact that he continues to be selected the wicb does not see him in the same light as Bravo and Pollard although by commission he should be. he was in the thick of it.

Ketchim has not said anything about that that I have seen but he is all over Pollard and Bravo.  but which is the likely rotten movement of the 2 and 1?  Sammy's Yes ::confused::

sorry anyway! I said I would not talk abut this again but I have.

I never intend to wish anyone bad but even complete humiliation at the World Cup, which is quite likely, will not see the shameless people at the WICB, sadly including Lloyd, sit up and take note.

Ramdin will soon be toppled, for no genuine reason other than Lloyd's look into the future!

I wish Holder well but to date he seems flustered and out of his depth so I hope this premature elevation does not ruin him and his development!

The entire Squad and Coaches are out of their Depth !

Even with all the T20 IPL players :

they still were below average on the International scene ...

for a Decade and a Half !