A Question fuh Ketchim....

for clarity it would be best if you cited specific example when it comes to 'key roles and selection' and explained yourself as fully as possible.

what are you talking about ::confused::

what entitlement you and ketchim talking about.  allyuh only say entitlement but allyuh have not proved any dam relevant thing! 

where is the entitlement..how is is it shaped..from whence did it come,...what the hell is it..how is it expressed..give us some examples ::confused:: ::confused:: ::confused:: ::confused::

"In the context of the Caribbean you may conclude the business issue is true but it does not necessarily hold true elsewhere where the population is predominantly Black. Or is it? In the West indies you might better knowledge doe this hold true for Barbados, Jamaica etc?"

None of the northern islands have significant Indian populations. It's only Trinidad and Guyana with big Indian populations. Guyana was so underpopulated after 1833, that its now "freed" local landowners (mostly white and Indian) were shipping in blacks from the other islands to work the land.

But the point is, humans are not rigid things. What leads to people doing anything is complex. For example, Caribbean blacks were released from slavery only 4 generations ago. Two of those generations had to put up with all kinds of laws banning them from property and inheritance, which basically forced them to work for others. The next 2 generations - the first "educated" blacks in the Caribbean EVER - went largely into the public sector. They had nowhere else to go. Those that had no education or failed school - why should they be expected not to? Were their parents schooled? Their grandparents? A family line is supposed to adapt to such social changes immediately? - were pushed into poverty. It's only now, in the 21st century, that some black family lines have amassed enough momentum to be big entrepreneurial business folk. If you view that as a good thing.

Remember, people have very little free will as to what they do. This is even true on the biological level; most of what we do we do is pre-conscious, done microseconds before the brain is even conscious of it.

If one had to look at the post WICBC era from afar none of the key roles, President, CEO and CFO have been held by anyone from the Indian Community.

Most of the islands are black. The odds of an Indian being CEO is not statistically likely (the current VP of the WI Women's board is Indian). And if this hypothetical Indian becomes a CEO, it's likely that he becomes one because he is already an evil guy.

Remember, Hilaire aint an incompetent black man. He is simply evil. Most who graduate from the London School of Economics, like he did, turn out to be complete bastards. Few schools churn out as many white collar criminals, neo-cons, Big Oil and Presidential confidantes as LSE. They groom you to be an a**hole. Today Hilaire is handling all of ST Lucia's trade.

Hunte is another evil dude, UN ambassador and director of both a central bank and the largest commercial bank in St Lucia. Muirhead, the current CEO, is another banker. The Guyanese board is equally corrupt, but in different ways. It's not connected to the other banks on the WI islands.

But the point is, this is not a race issue. This is a class issue.

Ironically, Ketchim is accusing blacks of being “incompetent business managers”, when Ken Gordon, WICB president a while ago, was a billionaire media and communications mogul. This is the kind of “successful businessman” Ketchim wants. Unsurprisingly, Gordon was also a banker puppet (the Royal Bank of Tand T, which has majority shares in banks all over the Caribbean, especially Suriname, St Kitts, Nevis, Jamaica, the lesser Antilles, Grenada, Barbados, Aruba).

You cannot fix this kind of corruption. Our system breeds it. What will happen is that the WICB will evolve and simply figure out how to be both corrupt and an institution for producing good cricketers and/or wins. It has to if it wants to survive. The only other alternative is Guyana pulling out and somehow triggering some new restructuring of the WICB, which is highly unlikely.


“I think it is a case of they have never been given a chance although many hold the right credentials in developing and managing large successful enterprises and even turning them around. In fact Toppin, a BIM Black, was apparently a successful businessman and could not move offices to BIM so Aanensen, an ex-banker was chosen but resigned within the year!”

In real life, my field is thermoeconomics and sustainable architecture. So to me, all “business” is socially damaging, no matter how “benign” or “hardworking” or “deserving” the “success story” mistakingly thinks it is. And to me, the whole model of the WICB is primitive, and too slow and cumbersome for dealing with cricket issues. But you cant change it.


“I am not sure about the genetic evidence, but Culturally they seem to be from their moral stand on family structures, industriousness”

That is just stereotyping. Most have very Christian, Catholic and conservative values. And social and historical factors cause “industriousness”. What was your great, great, great, great, great grandfather doing? Probably broke, starving and dumb as a door knob. Why? Stuff takes time.


"Anyone who knows anyting about Windian Cricket can see this 'entitlement' iussue permeates to selection and the composition of the key WICB roles."

It has nothing to do with race. Just money and odds. If the racial compositions of the West Indies were reversed (Guyana and Trinidad predominantly black and all the other islands predominantly Indian), you would get the same situation. You would a group of Indian bankers and “corporate managers” running the WICB, and  a small group of black Guyanese angry and demanding shake up.


“I do not see the relevance of this point. The politics of the middle east is complex and a classic Hagelian Dialectic study. The Ayatollah was placed by the Americans as was Sadam Hussein.”

That is exactly my point. The history is complex – the French, British and later American Empires raped the Middle East – but you totally ignore similar complexities when looking at the West Indies. You view the West Indies as every prejudicial Westerner views the Mid East.


Guess which Country has contravened the most UN resolutions? I will give you a clue, they have occupied territories....

Yeah, I gave a speech at Kings College recently on this too. I've been with the BDS (boycott Israeli goods) movement since my university days. I'm only a crazy clown when WI cricket is going down. Well, you probably have to be to stay a sane WI fan.


"If you ever want to kow the way one should conduct oneself, look at the scriptures and not te behaviour of some Muslims."

I am not bashing Muslims. I think you misunderstood my point. Regardless, the scriptures of the Bible and Koran and most other religious texts are the same in the way they veer wildly from barbaric values (unsurprisingly, they were written thousands of years ago) to essential, compassionate, vital, righteous and “progressive” values. What segments the religious believer chooses to believe comes down to social pressures. If the Old Testament says you can own slaves, but 100 million people around you say that's not okay, who you gonna believe?


“The WICB should have been more forward thinking to invest”

And this is a black thing? Ireland, Afganistan, New Zealand, Bangladesh, Pakistan, and until the mid 90s, India...all have the same problems we having.

When I'm travelling and watching cricket on my laptop, I visit a cricket website which has chat rooms. Whenever Pakistan and India play – Pak and Indian fans absolutely hate each other - you get non-stop racism in the comments. And because India has been winning, all the comments boil down to Indians bashing muslims and bashing Pakistanis simply for being “muslim” and “Pakistani”. To these people, Pakistan loses by nature of being “muslim” and “Pakistani”. The game outcome is “natural”. Of course Sri Lanka then arrives, kicks India's ass and the Afridi fan-boys start laughing. Prejudice is only cool when its funny.


“BUT Samuels who CANNOT bowl his wicket taking delivery since it is a PELT : and who just made 2 2nd Ball DUCKS is recalled”

Samuels, I think, was recalled for 2 reasons. One, because he mad a ton in the practise match. Two, because he is going to be permanently dropped and they need him to fail spectacularly to justify their dropping of him.

The team is captained by an Indian, Deo dont deserve to be on the WI team and Shilly was chosen based on his past work against NZ.


“SYNERGY my friend will NOT work with Crabs inna Barrel”

It already working. All the islands already play each other. You just need more layers and more games being played at different age groups.

aaaahhhh!  this is a strong contribution indeed.  great clarity and advancememt of the discussion

lest see Mail and ketchim now.

it is my opinion we do not have the time!  I dont exactly know what will happen but I dont see that there is time for the west indies anymore

nothing more spectacular than 2 ducks in row in desperate situations. 

no need to wait any longer.  deh have their failure and reason to cut the skunt forever

its not a good thing..and socially we have no more time for that.  the system in place beats down black people..all ordinary people.  all who rise are complicit with that, prepared to sacrifice their own for personal advantage

as you know capitalism is not a process of increase that raise all sails but exploitative..rise of a few at the expense of all others...zero sum they call it ::confused::

this is sweetly expressed!  ketchim an dem is hypocrite!  deh wont admit to stuff like this..the truth.  it is a class issue..not race.  and the elite class is capitalist and capitalism is evil.  the evil in charge promotes the evil in life, not the good.

yet given the ebb of players of afro descent a sort of vacuum, exists in west indies cricket that can be filled by a generation or 2, or 3,  of world class players of Indo descent. 

if that happens and west indies pride and glory is restored in this manner then there would be nothing to stop these players becoming the admin of tomorrow, regardless of  indo concentration in Guyana and BeeGee

in fact again..vacuum or not..we need world class players period. the more the merrier. if we have too many we will export them for money.  as long as they are west indian they qualify..ethnic origin of no consequence

Shilly was known to being Policed .

His ONLY wicket taking delivery was prohibited.

Your Deo remark is not worthy of a response.

Ramdin was a deal with TTCB and WICB directorship..

Pierre Trudeau is a Legend . Michael Manley was okay ...

Maybe it is the grads like Forbes and Ernest .

nonsense !...You sounding more like an Apologist in real life !