You must also acknowledge the part your ancestors played in facilitating slavery by capturing rival tribes and bringing them to the Slavers.
[/quote] You have to understand that history is written by the slave owning class and that blacks captured and sold other blacks is patently incorrect.
Those blacks that were sold were actually captured prisoners of war and in those days they would have been executed , instead their lives were spared and sold as slaves
[quote author=Mail link=topic=83226.msg520017#msg520017 date=1378722416]
I am very mindful of the generalisation but you do not have to be privileged to act responsibly and take necessary precautions. I do not know your background but I am talking about statistical and observed evidence, in the context of the West Indies and the UK, over many years.
Equally any objectification of anyone is wrong and in my view empowering women (our daughters, sisters, nieces etc) is to give them the choice to cover up and dress modestly and not feel the need to strip off to be accepted.
So I agree with you on those couple of points but we, as men, have to face the same environment and it neither justifies nor explains the volume of absent fathers in the West Indies.
There are complex factors for many things but not for an entire group of people.
It is a social observation based on facts and not an attempt to stir hatred.
There is always a cry for Black role models and why is that?
Absent fathers and are we saying this is down to slavery and some other complex issues surround a vast number of males?
If so I would like to learn.
[/quote]
What statistical evidence are we talking about? And 'modesty' is another form of objectification - saying you give them a 'choice' to dress modestly is really an oxymoron. What you should do is give them the freedom - full stop.
And I am not excusing the objectification of women, but I don't know why you felt it was a good idea to make generalizations about blacks? I mean how does that compare to India or Pakistan, who are not 'blacks', but still are not progressive countries (India is probably somewhat, but still you get my point).
[quote author=ramesh link=topic=83226.msg520186#msg520186 date=1378780474]
You have to understand that history is written by the slave owning class and that blacks captured and sold other blacks is patently incorrect.
Those blacks that were sold were actually captured prisoners of war and in those days they would have been executed , instead their lives were spared and sold as slaves
[/quote]
History is not always written by whites. And it's also researched and corrected by historians based on evidence. You could argue that bias might come into play while interpreting the evidence, but it's still better than random assertions, and by far at that.
No man is better than another except by piety irrespective of ethnicity.
I am personally fed up with the constant cry for Black Male role models be it in the US, Caribbean, Europe and elsewhere.
We cannot continually make excuses and blame others for your actions.
There are no complex reasons to explain Black males irresponsibility when it comes to fathering and neglecting children.
It has nothing to do with your claims of Whites falsifying history or Black males in slavery were forced to impregnate many women to keep numbers up or some tribal system.
Slavery has been abolished for 200 years plus and many things have changed in that time.
We are all responsible for our actions and our actions are down to us not some convoluted excuse.
This is the reason I am pleased that Pollard has become part of something positive. He in fact is no role model for his poor behaviour and someone like Lara might have been better.
A positive move is a positive move.
Children abandonment is not isolated to Blacks except there is a higher proportion of Black men who act this way.
Kyle,
Freedom is choice so my choice of words is neither incongruous or contradictory.
The discussion was not a comparison of Africa, India or Pakistan rather the irresponsible behaviour of Afro West Indian men in matters of fathering and abandoning children.
Therefore I do not know to what extent this capricious behaviour exist in the regions you introduced into the discussion.
In fact the discussion was not about objectification of women rather irresponsible behaviour.
[quote author=Mail link=topic=83226.msg520196#msg520196 date=1378804277]
Kyle,
Freedom is choice so my choice of words is neither incongruous or contradictory.
The discussion was not a comparison of Africa, India or Pakistan rather the irresponsible behaviour of Afro West Indian men in matters of fathering and abandoning children.
Therefore I do not know to what extent this capricious behaviour exist in the regions you introduced into the discussion.
In fact the discussion was not about objectification of women rather irresponsible behaviour.
[/quote]
Not really - if you put pressure on someone and give them a 'choice', it is not really a 'choice' in the absolute sense of the word. That's called peer pressure, and it's real.
I was talking about your assertion about your generalization about 'blacks', how does this objectification measure up with other groups? Because you weren't talking about a person, but rather making a generalization about blacks. Anyway.
Pollard has too much money for such a limited cricketer but fair play to him for giving some of his money back to help the young people where he is from.
