[quote author=Mail link=topic=83226.msg519960#msg519960 date=1378633847]
I believe what many dislike is the lack of morality of black men using women as recreational objects, dropping children with multiple partners leaving children to grow up without a father figure, a role sometimes filled by grandparents.
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Wow that's a terrible generalization Mail. Even if true, you would have to account for how most blacks lack the privilege that whites do, there are various complex factors. And I don't think they're a homogeneous group as they imply they are. You could find that objectification of women in India or Pakistan as well, or even in white dominated west, but in a different way. So that is very harsh to make such sweeping generalizations.
[quote author=ramesh link=topic=83226.msg520009#msg520009 date=1378689365]
You make blanket statements regarding the lack of morality among black men but you are no expert.
Black men thought Africa are responsible family men and the perceived lack of morals in black men applies to only those blacks in western hemisphere, and England..
We must ask ourselves why this is so and the answer lies in racial discrimination and the legacy of slavery. During chattel slavery blacks were treated like cattle and were forced to impregnate many women and to answer your question , you can blame the white slave owners because blacks were taught that this was acceptable behaviour and this trait was passed down from generation to generations [/quote]
I agree with your position on African men and I have several very close Ghanian and Nigerian friends who have very stable and long relationships raising beautiful children benefitting from a loving family with a present father.
My reference was the West Indies and I asked your own personal experience. May I remind you I have adopted a mixed ethnicity child and did extensive research during which the Office for National Statistics information was scrutinised. However the context was the West Indies for which no meaningful statistics exist but you need just look around.
You second point (underlined) even if true was a function at that time and not an inherited trait.
Slavery has been abolished in the West Indies for almost 200 years, so you are telling the deep scars of slavery will go on forever?
In the context of Pollard I am proud he has become part of something positive for youngsters, particularly Black youngsters, to aspire to be and have a role model they otherwise would not have in cases of absentee fathers.
Slavery was awful but we cannot continue to blame everything on the past although it has a bearing on who we are today. Lincoln and many abolitionists fought hard to achieve cessation of this awful practice.
You must also acknowledge the part your ancestors played in facilitating slavery by capturing rival tribes and bringing them to the Slavers.
[quote author=Kyle link=topic=83226.msg520011#msg520011 date=1378698379]
Wow that's a terrible generalization Mail. Even if true, you would have to account for how most blacks lack the privilege that whites do, there are various complex factors. And I don't think they're a homogeneous group as they imply they are. You could find that objectification of women in India or Pakistan as well, or even in white dominated west, but in a different way. So that is very harsh to make such sweeping generalizations.[/quote]
I am very mindful of the generalisation but you do not have to be privileged to act responsibly and take necessary precautions. I do not know your background but I am talking about statistical and observed evidence, in the context of the West Indies and the UK, over many years.
Equally any objectification of anyone is wrong and in my view empowering women (our daughters, sisters, nieces etc) is to give them the choice to cover up and dress modestly and not feel the need to strip off to be accepted.
So I agree with you on those couple of points but we, as men, have to face the same environment and it neither justifies nor explains the volume of absent fathers in the West Indies.
There are complex factors for many things but not for an entire group of people.
It is a social observation based on facts and not an attempt to stir hatred.
There is always a cry for Black role models and why is that?
Absent fathers and are we saying this is down to slavery and some other complex issues surround a vast number of males?
If so I would like to learn.
Absent fathers and are we saying this is down to slavery and some other complex issues surround a vast number of males?
If so I would like to learn.
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You would have to speak to the Jamaica males.
The defintion of Confusion is Fathers Day in Jamaica.
And these fellahs can de in Denial and blame the Slave trade all they want .
But Caribbean communities accept this unusual phenomena of the black male sowing his seed !
with the " child muddah " being left with the offspring.
I await ramesh's retort as he has argued this point before without relating it to his experience of his life, those around him, in the caribbeanp etc.
My comments are aimed at saying guys you need to make changes.
It just seems a recreation for these men.
I have had Ramesh state that it had simethingntondonwith tribal things, now that slaves had to impregnate many women as if that is a genetic condition!
