west indies do have the talent to compete.

The Australian team is certainly a formidable one, but west indies do have the talent to compete. What is lacking is that mental toughness and that sense of pride that drives one to perform to their full potential. The IQ among the players also seem to be quite low, hence the rash decisions they consistently make. Hoping they will try to push this match even into the fourth day. The fans deserve that much

The Aussies were 16/2 on the first day and they went on to make 399. I think st 16/2 we can make 392

That's it in a nutshell ...

The greatest honour for Aussie cricketers is for them to represent their country.

No contest between loyalty and pride of players to Baggy Green and the same thereof to Windies Maroon ...plus the 'never say die' mental toughness. 

No competition ...... WI victory days done !!

A poor first class competition will certainly contribute to that. The standard is very low so it is wishful thinking to expect players to suddenly compete at the highest level. Essentially the players have to learn on the job and that is very difficult.

by way of general commentary.....

Australia has more of a real country than the west indies, with a commitment from the general society to its citizens that expresses in general opportunity for all citizens depending on their levels of ability, ambition etc.

Australia is a white society and in the modern world that means wealth is concentrated there and the society operates on a level relative to that wealth. if an Australian decides to forgo opportunities in any area of life there are more opportunity for him/her elsewhere in Oz society.  Australia produces doctors, scientists, computer experts, mathematicians world class all the time...has a society capable of such production of high quality people..and all the rest needed to keep such a society going

at the moment Stephen Crothers and Wallace Thornhill are great intellects in maths and Cosmology..the Electric Universe..of international renown..2 of my favourite people in all the world at the moment..both Australian.

the difference between Australia and the west indies is like night and day as developed/developing societies. 

the west indies produces what we are capable of.. writers and artists, who must leave the region to be educated and produce their work abroad.  few do so or can do so in the region. 

the west indies has little industry of  nationalist nature.  whatever work we do and the education system and content we have, is to produce people to service such industry.. which is western branch industry developed to service western economic interest..not the interest of the west indies.

there is nothing going on in the west indies of a nationalist nature save the Jamaican athletic Association and the work they do. 

forced by poverty of financial resources they have used their brains, physics, math to produce cheap alternative equipment to the expensive athletic training equipment from the west they cannot pay for..using local materials.  and in nationalizing their efforts, fully dependent on themselves, they have been brilliantly successful as we all can see

nothing of the kind happens elsewhere in the west indies as far as I know.  and if it does it is probably under pressure for the system does not encourage the development of such independence.  such development is encouraged in Australia..a white country.. but not in the west indies.

talented youth in the west indies, now tend to stay away from cricket and play basketball, soccer, run track and field for simple reasons:  they get scholarships out of the west indies to go school and get a degree with a chance to get to the olympics...in other words to make a life for themselves in forrin countries..a life they cannot make at home in the west indies for obvious reasons 

they play soccer because the great teams/competitions of the world search the world for soccer talent and pay well..far more than cricket.  an few years in international soccer pays enough to set up for life, those who make it. 

Basketball brings scholarships to american universities.

I am only sooprised that baseball has not grown strong in the west indies yet..as it has next door on the continent..in Cuba and Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic etc., whose players fill up major league baseball.

an economically backward region, the west indies is full of unemployment and lack of opportunity for the people.  if a kid misses an opportunity one is not lurking as he turns, to compensate.  west indian cricketers simply cannot afford to sacrifice for the wicb and the 'good' of west indies cricket.  there is no 'good' of west indies cricket, only wicb feeding at the trough.  there is no value for anyone in that not even the wicb.. in such sacrifice by the players.

if on the other had the west indies cricket administration worked with the players to make their lives easier so they can play for the lucrative opportunities abroad and represent the west indies as well... that would go a long way towards an easier relationship between the players and the administration. 

the players cannot exist on what they get from the west indies board.  they will exhaust their years on a cricket field, end up at best middle class in the region, struggling like the middle class does everywhere these days, as deflating economies the world over destroy the middle classes.

and the major hypocrisy involved is that the west indies cricket administration profits greatly from all the players in international T20 competitions, for at least the IPL pays the wicb a substantial dividend for each one of them, relative to the salaries they command.

the wicb receives this dividend for no valid reason that I can see..it is free money. yet the wicb paints the players into a greedy and disloyal corner, when it cannot or will not afford them a decent living while taking with the hand behind their backs.  what would those players do without T20 competitions around the planet?

if an Australian refuses to play IPL what do they in fact do with their time otherwise, what do they get from and in Australia as compensation ::confused::  and is there any such compensatory structure in the west indies ::confused:: 

do the OZ players sit around and do nothing when they could be making hundreds of thousands in India for a couple of months work::confused::

I find most of the people here who on the backs of the west indian players are quite unfair to Dwayne Bravo and Kieron Pollard in particular, who are the rods that attract most of this kind of fire.  Sunil Narine for example, from the start to now has never been attacked in this manner.  Narine made millions, more than  all the rest, hardly ever played for the west indies...and no one here ever found that offensive...never, not a word about the 'greed and disloyalty' of Sunil Narine.

in fact special dispensation was made for Narine..so much so that when he was finished an IPL he was rushed to england to join the west indies team and immediately included in the test team.  this is of course ridiculous double standard for this message board and very suspicious overall.  it looks like all is good for some people and the same is definitely not good for others

in the circumstances I have not one single concern about the behavior of those who play IPL..certainly not Sunil Narine as well. I am totally on their side.  they are not disloyal in any way.  it is the wicb that is disloyal and unpatriotic by not looking after the players and west indies cricket properly..placing their own bureaucratic interest and high salaries before any other consideration in the running of west indies cricket.

and I find all here who beat up on the players for playing IPL to be hypocrites and blind people, who really need Marlon Samuels to bring his support for the blind here to help them see straight

Why are you conveniently "forgetting" : WALK OFF THE JOB that cost 42 MILLION DOLLARS.

HUH ????

ALSO those 2 jackasses COST the Shivster his 12K TEST record.

HUH ???

Short memory

short and totally imperfect memory particularly for the one directly above - ketchim....who is also blind and speaks temptingly like something is wrong with his faculties.. a likely speculation given the divergence between what actually happened and what he alleges.

pheeeeew! where is Samuels and his assisstance for the blind ::confused:: ::confused:: ::confused::

Bravo and Pollard names must never be used in these discussions .....

Bits and Pieces , in addition to walking off de Job and costing de Great man his 12K record.