UPDATE: 11,953 - 11,219 = 734

[size=18pt]Elite or Extraordinary Greats VS Ordinary Greats[/size]



* When you look at the Forbes 400----there are 400 billionaires on that list today.

* But all billionaires are not the same.

* You have the elite or extraordinary billionaires---like the people at the Top of the Forbes 400----folks like Gates, Buffett, Ellison, Koch, the Waltons, Bloomberg, etc---these folks are all worth over 30 billion.

* Then you have the ordinary billionaires---folks like Trump and Oprah.

* [size=14pt]It's the same with cricket greats----in batting---you have the elite or extraordinary greats---Bradman, Sobers, Richards, Lara, Tendulkar----then you have the ordinary greats----Ponting, Dravid, Kallis, Border, Chanderpaul, Waugh, Sangakkara, etc, etc[/size]


* The Rev's favorite batsman Shiv Chanderpaul is not elite--he is ordinary.

Rev

I am not sure Chanderpaul will achieve that feat.

I get the feeling he is likely to be chopped after the England series if he is remotely mediocre.

He was very mediocre in England for Derbyshire and I do not see the fighting Chanderpaul of even a few months ago. As much as one may, with reason, berate the non achievement of the 6, or so, consecutive test victories, Chanderpaul benefitted from poor opponents and bowling as well.

He is not fearing well against better bowling.

Chanderpaul has been a pillar for the West Indies but I fear he is perhaps and unfortunately,  at the end of his illustrious career.

[quote author=easyrider link=topic=86041.msg538626#msg538626 date=1387083234]
I am not sure Chanderpaul will achieve that feat. I get the feeling he is likely to be chopped after the England series if he is remotely mediopcre. He was very mediocre in England for Derbyshire and I do not see the fighting Chanderpaul of even a few months ago. As much as one may, with reason, berate the non achievement of the 6, or so, consecutive test victories, Chanderpaul benefitted from poor opponents and bowling as well.
[/quote]

Easyrider:

* You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

* [size=14pt]I must say your opinion is loaded with pessimism, negativity, glumness, and  an expectation for the worst.[/size]

* It looks like you are secretly hoping and wishing that Shiv does not surpass Lara as the highest run scorer in WI test history.

* As one of Shiv's biggest fans, I hope you are dead wrong and Shiv will end his career with 12K+ runs at a 50+ average.


Rev

[quote author=easyrider link=topic=86041.msg538626#msg538626 date=1387083234]

[size=14pt]Chanderpaul benefitted from poor opponents and bowling as well. He is not fearing well against better bowling. [/size] [/quote]

Easyrider:

* Lemme challenge you on your assertion above---that Shiv has benefitted from poor opponents and is not fearing well against better bowling.

* It is true that in his last 10 tests ---(from July 2012 to Dec 2013) Shiv has faced Bangladesh, Zimbabwe and New Zealand in 8 of those 10 tests and he averaged 71.54 in his last 10 tests.

* But let's take a look at the 3 opponents Shiv faced prior to NZ/Bang/Zim----those 3 opponents were England, Australia and India---and Shiv played in 7 tests(between Nov 2011 and May 2012) against Eng/Aus/India.

* In those 7 tests against England, Australia and India these were Shiv's scores:

* 118, 47, 4, 47(vs India); 103* 12, 94, 68, 69(vs Australia); 87*, 91, 46, 11(vs England)

* ADD all that up and you get 797 runs in 7 tests against Ind/Aus/Eng at an average of 72.45

* So Shiv has averaged 71.54 in his last 10 tests against India, Bangladesh, Zimbabwe and New Zealand.

* But he averaged 72.45 in 7 tests prior to the last 10 against India, Australia and England.

http://howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Pl...yerID=1979


CONCLUSION:

[size=14pt]Did you say easyrider that Shiv has benefited from poor opponents and poor bowling ? Really ? Did you see those scores and averages above against England and Australia ? By the way easy rider---do you know that since Lara retired at the end of 2006---Shiv has played in 51 tests ---he has scored 4341 runs at an average of 67.82 with 14 hundreds and 22 fifties---and he has the highest average of any batsman the past 7 years ?[/size]


Like the Rev said to you easyrider---you are entitled to your opinion and your negativity.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/...pe=batting

Rev

Methink easyrider is of the opinion that Shiv will be booted unceremoniously :

waaayyyyyyy before 2015 Tours ...

[quote author=ketchim link=topic=86041.msg538655#msg538655 date=1387126458]
Methink easyrider is of the opinion that Shiv will be booted unceremoniously :
waaayyyyyyy before 2015 Tours ...
[/quote]

Ketch:

* [size=14pt]The Rev challenged easyrider on his contention that Shiv has benefitted from poor opponents and bowling.[/size]

* There is no question Shiv has slowed down in 2013----he only averaged 38 for Derbyshire---and in calendar year 2013 Shiv has averaged 47.63 in 6 tests.

* Shiv needs 876 to surpass Lara---he has averaged 62 runs per test in his 4 tests against India and NZ----if he were to continue with such ordinary production---it would take Shiv 14 tests to surpass Lara.

* And by the way, with the shythounds in the Caribbean today----Shiv can play until he is 50 and still be more productive than most of them.

Rev

He like Sammy is playing their last series

[quote author=ketchim link=topic=86041.msg538655#msg538655 date=1387126458]
Methink easyrider is of the opinion that Shiv will be booted unceremoniously :

waaayyyyyyy before 2015 Tours ...
[/quote]

And that is my point.

This is not about pessimism and negativity, as I have the utmost respect for Chanderpaul's steeliness, but the reality of what I am seeing.

Whether judging on higher standards or not, the manner in which Chanderpaul has been dismissed of late have been soft.

Failures in Hamilton might even see an acceleration of his departure and importantly unceremoniously as was his loutish treatment in the ODIs setup.

Had his ODI departure been through injuries and therefore preserving him for Tests then one could understand. If he was poor in that format and his ousting lead to significantly better results then I can understand.

However neither has been the case. His removal was not down to easyrider but down to the people you have running your game.

You know your selectors have come up with more bizarre things.

pile on the runs shiv 8)

[size=18pt]Shiv 94*[/size]


The equation is now:

[size=14pt]11,953 - 11,171* = 782[/size]

* Hopefully Shiv can reduce that 782 to under 700 by the end of 2013.

Rev