WI CAPTAINCY: Denesh Ramdin Or Darren Bravo ?

[size=12pt]allyuh tink i am wrong? 

tell mih how den ::confused::[/size]

[quote author=mapoui link=topic=85310.msg532991#msg532991 date=1384923155]
Insularity in the west indies is rooted more at the top of the society than at the bottom...just like it was in the old days with the whites in charge.  the old planters fought each other tooth and nail which provided the basis for insularity which the inheritors of the planers the black and brown elites kerry on to this day
[/quote]

[size=14pt]Thanks for sharing your views Mappy! Very interesting and informative![/size]

[size=14pt]But here is the deal Mapster! No matter who runs WI cricket or who captains the team, the reality is the Caribbean no longer produces world class cricketers.[/size]

For example, the best young batsman in the Caribbean today is Darren Bravo. Well guess what ? Bravo doesn't even average 40 in first class cricket. Yes! He started out well in tests, but over the last 2 years he has struggled.

In the bowling department---not a single decent quick has been produced since Ambrose and Walsh left the scene---Roach is half way decent and Rampaul has fitness issues.

BOTTOM LINE:

[size=14pt]The West Indies is destined to be an ordinary team playing good cricket against lower ranked teams but struggling mightily against teams ranked higher.[/size]

By the way Mappy---you mentioned insufficient preparation before going to India. Well, in the one first class match they played prior to the 2 tests---didn't the WI batsmen score a ton of runs ?

The truth is Mapoui----WI players---except Shiv---are not good enough to compete against the higher ranked teams----and they will keep struggling for decades to come.

[size=14pt]JUST ACCEPT WI CRICKET FOR WHAT IT HAS BECOME---PERENNIALLY MEDIOCRE.[/size]

We can argue about who should captain the team from now until thy kingdom come---it will be a waste of oxygen---an exercise in futility---West Indies cricket will be ordinary or mediocre for decades to come.

Rev

Quote:But here is the deal Mapster! No matter who runs WI cricket or who captains the team, the reality is the Caribbean no longer produces world class cricketers

that does not worry me!

the social ambient is not conducive to producing quality people in any area of social activity.  wherever there is creative, independent activity based on local resources both human and environmental west indians succeed hugely.

the Yardie athletics program is a major case in point

I have no fear at all that should the situation in cricket become an independently oriented process, based in the full creativity of the people that we will return to producing top class players like we did when there was the hope of such independence and we were organized in struggle for it

Quote:JUST ACCEPT WI CRICKET FOR WHAT IT HAS BECOME---PERENNIALLY MEDIOCRE.

I don't have to accept that!  I know better!  I know how we got to this stage and why.. and what is necessary to change the situation around

[quote author=mapoui link=topic=85310.msg532996#msg532996 date=1384926047]
I don't have to accept that!  I know better!  I know how we got to this stage and why.. and what is necessary to change the situation around
[/quote]

Mapoui:

* The West Indies became world champions and ruled the cricket world for nearly 2 decades because they produced a plethora of world class batsmen and bowlers.

* Since Chanderpaul debuted back in 1994 and since Ambrose and Walsh retired the West Indies has not produced a single outstanding test cricketer.

* You said you know how to turn WI cricket around----welcome to the club---every Tom, Dick and Harry knows how to turn WI cricket around.

[size=14pt]* But the fact is until the WI starts producing real professionals----cricketers with a willpower to practice diligently and keep improving their game----cricketers who are willing to work hard and be focused on their trade----and until they start producing batsmen who can average 40+ in tests and bowlers who can have a bowling average of 30 or less----the West Indies will remain an ordinary team that does well against bottom feeders and struggles mightily against the top ranked teams.[/size]

20 years from now you and the Rev will still be debating about how to turn West Indies cricket around or who should captain the team----bottom line West Indies cricket is destined to be perennially mediocre. ;D

Rev

Quote: You said you know how to turn WI cricket around----welcome to the club---every Tom, Dick and Harry knows how to turn WI cricket around

you lump me in the lowest bunch eh..with tom dick and harry :'(

I shudda not imply such certainty in turn-around however and re-tract a bit.  I know what can help west indies return to cricket glory.

look at Bharat..he was a very good player, maybe at his peak close to Richardson at his best.  I figured he had lost his head as I speculated he had and confirmation by his range rover business.  I was right..although I never expected that kind of thing from an Indo.

Narine seems different.

the problem with the west indies is that cricket administration is a valuable sinecure and has been as a result a wholly owned project of the elites. 

they also run soccer but soccer has a different ambient, more ordinary influence than cricket. 

and also globally full of expansion and more opportunity for players than cricket. 

the demand for soccer players is universal. any west indian soccer player can be contacted and made a deal with.  in fact there are agents in soccer looking for talented players to get jobs for, and make money for themselves.

so the west indian social reality that retards cricket greatly does not hold back soccer..cannot hold back soccer.  and where athletes are successful they are either prepared in forrin countries on scholarship..or else developed regionally by dedicated west indians of independent mind and high creative skills.

that was the case in cricket until 1995.  what is so important about 1995.  the black and brown nig nog elites took over and have been strangling cricket ever since..for 19 years now.

that is the single most destructive development in west indian cricket decline and low class of players. 

cricket has refused to equalize the board of opportunity for players of cricket.  talent is flocking elsewhere.  that is deliberate policy.  the west indian elites are starving the game of talent while they look for opportunities to bleed it of revenue. 

take a look at skameron here and his new T20.  look for bobol all along the way.

it follows that the opposite of whats going on would help greatly to reverse the situation

[quote author=mapoui link=topic=85310.msg533035#msg533035 date=1384959074]

it follows that the opposite of whats going on would help greatly to reverse the situation
[/quote]

daaaammmmnnnn.....very deep and analytical !  8)

Quote:that was the case in cricket until 1995.  what is it so important about 1995.

was it not the same year coach Kanhai got fired for pointing out the indiscipline in the players habits?!  There goes the slide!!

The Captaincy issue is key, as someone needs to lead on the field and give guidance elsewhere, but the key is selecting your best possible squad first and then, all things being equal, all else will follow.

[quote author=easyrider link=topic=85310.msg533069#msg533069 date=1384962227]

all things being equal, all else will follow.
[/quote]

There is Inequity in the Selection process .

Head Coach seems to be Impotent , as well ...