**** West Indians no Aptitude for Test Cricket ? ****

That about sums it up ... pitches, aptitude, attitude ... plus the fact that WI cupboard seems to be bare at the moment re talent....

Cali,

I have seen poor Kiwi teams with a lot of fight in losing.

In the 70s they may have had Turner, they hardy, if ever, won but they fought to the end.

The cupboard is what it is but does the psyche crave instant gratification.

Blackwood to me looks a good prospect and perhaps Ambris but they do not seem to have the attention span to graft.

Shiv is not the most talented batsman but he has scored almost 12k runs by pure application and we see young Brathwaite following in his footsteps.

Many decry that approach but that is what is required for Test Cricket.

At the same time you may have a guy like Charles, techniqueless but with hand eye coordination, will do well in T20 etc.

Speaking to many people they rue the Calypso cricket!

However many times the likes of Freddo, Haynes and Greenidge grafted and chose their shots well.

West Indians might just be burdened and weakened by their cricketing history and perhaps fail to understand the graft that went into success.

What real impact has the HPC made?

I believe whatever the cupboard has has to have the correct approach!

The constand squabbling and unwieldy nature of the WICB make it impossible to have resources channelled appropriately!

I sincerely hope as soon as Shiv retires, the WICB employs him either as a key part of the HPC or , preferably, batting Coach come mentor of both the 1st and A Teams and to that end Shiv should get his coaching certificates if he is yet to do so!

I don't know about Shiv at HPC.  Carl Hooper did a stint there ... don't know whether that is still ongoing or not.  One would've thought that would've created some improvement but obviously, it hasn't. When Hooper was Cappo, I felt there was a chance under his leadership that WI would rise again, but we all know what transpired with Lara etc....

Don't know what difference Shiv would make in that capacity, so guess the aptitude and attitude of upcoming players is still the big 'elephant in the room'

I think it's pretty obvious that the current WI players are sadly not of the same calibre and mindset as those of the victory days....

Standards are attained and maintained ... in WI's case they were never sadly maintained and IMO there was never an attempt to maintain those standards... and 'so it goh'

But Shiv and Brathwaite are of that Test mindset and they are of the same environment.

If the Cricket is dung heap then I want to see more centuries and players spending time at the crease.

I do not know on what basis you find Shiv unsuitable at the HPC as you could not have a better person to take youngsters under their wings to instil the best approach to crease occupation, hard work, practice...practice...practice.

He is current and he would have the respect of players he has himself played with and against.

That is one option but Shiv has to be involved in the Windies team post his retirement to bridge that vacuum he would leave and, at the very least, enable a transition.

When Ambrose and Walsh retired at the same time I felt  a similar approach should have been adopted....

Cali,

Hope you do not mind as I thought I take your comment to this thread!

No they do not seem to, early on in their development!

I have seen some signs recently where batsmen are trying, especially the new boys.

All players should develop their skills as I do not believe in over coaching!

The HPC has to focus on developing Test players and a large part of that is crease occupation and mental strength!

Yes, but Brathwaithe's role model has always been Shiv ... right down to the under eye patches !! 

I think Shiv would be very suitable for a HPC role.... but my point is that I'm sure you've read several articles re Shiv mentoring the younger players in an unofficial capacity off-field, but do they listen and put his advice into practice???  It seems NO at this point... perhaps in the more formal atmosphere of a coaching academy, they might listen .... who knows ??!!

Well who knows really?


I just hope Shiv is utilised to enable as seamless a transition as possible.


I do not know Shiv's personal traits except he does not come across well to teh media.


I suggested both the HPC and the First and second teams!


HPC because that si where one should learn all the bsics!


Let us see how teh second innings unfolds.


Strangely I am hopeful! 

They have the mental aptitude. Samuels and Darren Bravo and even Gayle are very slow and patient test players with most of their innings having a SR in the 40s. In tests, most of our batsmen are incredibly patient. Even Devon Smith is a slow and careful kind of guy. The mental side is okay. They can focus for long hours. The problem is that they can't actually bat.

Putting your head down and batting for 20 hours is pointless if you can only hit bad balls and if any ole delivery can take your wicket. In fact, because West Indian batsmen cannot bat, or handle most types of deliveries, they would be better off attacking madly and playing Calypso cricket. At least this unsettles the opposition.

Not quite sure I agree.

Having a low SR is not necessarily tantamount to mental aptitude.

Shot selection, willingness to bat and bat long, patience etc!

As I said previously both Amla and particularly deVilliers initial SRs were really low but they then maneuvered the ball, took the initiative, looked for opportunities, rotated the strike and that is the right mental aptitude and attitude.

Depends what you mean by "aptitude" and "mental aptitude". In a strict sense, "aptitude" and "innate ability" don't exist. All behaviour is learned.

West Indies batsmen have shown patience and a "willingness to bat and bat long". 

What they dont have is "shot selection", "skill" and "technique". I think these things are built by practise, training and exposure, but this has to be done at a young age.