A Prophet As A Womaniser

POINT 2

According to a number of narratives, Aisha accompanied the Muslims in the

Battle of Badr and Uhud.

It was usual for women to accompany men in battle so they can help in looking

after the wounded.

It was a strict rule that no one under the age of 15 was allowed to accompany

anyone in battle....

Nargis ,

This age tingy has been trumped over and over :

I never bought into it ...

WIFan , from the Green board started this shyte with me :

and of course all the Hindus jumped on it :

Black Prince , kakkabelly et al .... ::

Snoopster assisted my Defense with BP's claim of a millions hindus

killed in a Day !  ::lol:: ::lol::

[quote author=ketchim link=topic=71162.msg441632#msg441632 date=1347724968]
Nargis ,

This age tingy has been trumped over and over :

I never bought into it ...

WIFan , from the Green board started this shyte with me :

and of course all the Hindus jumped on it :

Black Prince , kakkabelly et al .... ::
[/quote] Sentiments cannot trump facts re. nine year old  .. documented  historical records, however , totally irrelevant, the totality of the Holy koran , a great moral code to live by supersedes any abberation    about the holy prophet .. peace be upon him

[quote author=~Nargis~ link=topic=71162.msg441581#msg441581 date=1347661506]
quite interesting
[/quote]
I have researched extensively on this matter  :wink:

[quote author=~Nargis~ link=topic=71162.msg441577#msg441577 date=1347660163]
I was what my parents call "a young lady" at the age of 10years old! had i been in a different time i would have been like the mideval girls@
[/quote]
hmmmm...had I been around in that same Medevial era :

I wouldda offer all de cows, goats, and wotever else :

Despite the age difference  :kiss: .......... ::lol:: ::lol::

[quote author=Kwami link=topic=71162.msg441627#msg441627 date=1347724718]
{1{ Maps I take issue that humans  abhorrent  and deviant behaviour  can somehow be justified because of experiences and accepatable community standards at a point in time.

{2} Humans are born with moral principles embedded in the genetic code and when grown men fornicate with underage females it is because they have a lust and  weakness for the flesh .

{3} How come incest is not practiced in any culture ? It is because that that they instinctively knows that it is forbidden, although I will make an exception for South Carolina
Evil behaviour is practiced and condoned for gratification or economic interests
[/quote]

{1}I am not trying to justify anything.  if I gave that impression or indicated it...I am sorry.  I am simply pointing out widespread historical social behavior that happened in societies, behaviours that are illegal illegal today, but were fully acceptable in their day..and still is in some circumstances.

{2}in addition:  'born with' as you list above means what..that there is some divine moral input into human consciousnes, transferred down he generations that is responsible for, or conditions human behaviour?

if anything becomes imbedded in the human genetic code it must be learned behavior.  experience feeds directly into the genetic code and influences human behaviour period.  if it has happened and became habitual it is there in the code and can happen again... depending. 

that is the only way to explain widespread pedophillia today, and all sexual practices now termed deviat and yet are now being expressed fully in society and must be explained....especially in areas of the world where such behavior was legal and accepted in times past. 

the means of transmission or etiology to this point must be understood to expalin why for instance that such behavior, all sexual, are out of the closet and apparenly must be resolved at this stage


{3}you are kidding when it comes to incest are you? 

it is clear you are not aware of the state of sexuality in the modern world, especially where incest is concerned. incest is now fully out of the closet seeking general legalisation and freedom as homosexuality before it. 

and what i have noted with great interest is the attitude of homosexuals to the incet movement which is likening itself to the struggle of homosexuals for legalisation and freedom to marry etc.  the homosexual attitude to the incest movement is as contemptuous as the attitude of black people to homosexuals when homosexual rights were likened to the fight for blac civil rights.

blac people wanted nothing to with homosexuals and their movement..not even to be likened to them in any way at all

you fhave to follow whats going on relative to sexuality..to everything you can in the world man..which is why I said 'so many ...all sexual out of the closet and apparantly must now be resolved by current society...'

and why now is another very relevant question!

do you know that in Brasil, Spain, Portugal, Israel, India, The netherlands Japan...incest is perfectly legal.  no one is punished for beinginvolved in incest, it is not am offenc of the penal codes of those nations?

in France it is supposed to be free or legal code penalties but some changes may have taken place that makes incest no so legal there anymore.  I have to look into that.  Napoleon had legalised or removed the legal prohibition on incest in France  more than a centurry ago.

there is no legal incest marriage anywhere that i know of, save in sweden where half brothers and sisters are allowed to marry.  In canada uncle/niece can marry by leave of provincial government on application.

in some american states like New Jersey incest is legal but not incest marriage.  some European states are in the process of removing incest form the penal code..Romania, Switzerland.  { and again by legal I mean there is no penal code prevetion of such sexual activity in thos locations }

procreation by related couples is not encouraged anywhere but it is not illegal in Japan.  in Japan it is perfectly legal for incest couples to have children.  and there may be a covenant in japanese law that permits marriage if pregnancy is involved. I will look into that at some point.

I pay attention to a lot of things and human sexual and general sexual practices is one such area focus of mine.

do yo know at one point in the 10 thousand year history of Egypt... ncient Kemet... that brother sister marriages were the preferred form of marriage..and the records show that it indeed was the most prevalent form of marriage at that time.

for in-breeding and sconcequences check the story of the Samaritans which is a very good historical case for relevant scientific purposes

and indeed in human pre-history it is accepted that during the communal martiarchy that there was no fatherhood and that incest was not a concept the people had yet developed, that sexuality was open, the family was the mother and children.

and as the incest taboo was developed it was reflected in the kinship systems now known to archaelogy?

and as incest became a universal taboo from the old universal incest..why, how and when?

my argument is simple:  technological change..development broke up the old communal matriarchy and madea new social organisation possible, real...exploitation of humans by humans.

  men had been civilised by the women,  by their development of agricluture...which gave a drive to technological advance which ultimately gave man his freeedom and social dominance.  he now knew his role in procreation, as opposed to previously believing that the femal of all species brought forth the new life on their own.

men now created the fatherhood and sought to know their own children for obvious reason.

as communal and incest in female domination,  then a form of sexual promiscuity existed in which it was impossible to know who fathered whom. 

for a man to know his children he must be the only man his woman had access to.  the price for that and for locking down the woman was to become father, asuming respnsibility for his wife and children..when he had had no responsibility previously.

hence all and every prohibition visited upon a woman in all  the holy books of the patriarchy...The Bible, The Koran, the Jewish books....god spoke only to men, giving them laws to govern soeciety in which control of women was pre-eminent.

also it is clear that transistion to the fatherhood from the motherhood was a protracted and bitter process, violent and traumatic.  that no doubt must represents,  or is the cause of a repressed collective traumata that resides in the memory of all humanity..WHICH IS WHY IT MOST LIKELY  IS BACK TODAY, NOW, CURRENTLY! AT THE POINT OF THE TOTAL FAILURE AND BREAKDOWN OF THE FATHERHOOD..REFLECTED IN ALL DEVIANT PROHIBITED SEXUALITY FOR CENTURIES. 

THE FLOOD OF PORNOGRAPHY IN THE WORLD COVERING ALL SEXUAL SUBJECTS MUST ALSO BE REFLECTIVE OF SUCH A BREAKDOWN

treating society like an individual psychiatric case it is clear to see that we are at a point of total social/emotional breakdown and all psychological restraint is gone, weakened or relaxed to the point  at which all that is repressed is not out in the open crying for attention/resolution

we have arrived at a point at which society must evolve, from the insane exploitative patriarchy to a democracy that is capable of addressing human truth, resolve human problems. 

the key sign of this is the existence of a technology so vast that it is now way beyond the ability of the patriarchy to deal with it, to consume and exhaust it, and so clear the decks for further human progress..which is essential if we are to sruvive.

the fatherhood can give us only austerity currently, lock-down, truncation..not expansion that can meet all human needs.  we are suffering in the face or plenty. 

that means the old way can no longer adjust to meet social need.  it is done, finished and humanity must discared the old way, and evolve a new way of social organisaton that continues human development and expansion

so that is why social breakdown currently.  we have been at such point s of social breakdown before. but for the for the first time in the exploitative paradigm do we have  a transformative technology that has copmpletely destabilied the old way and requires democratic social advace to deal with it effectively.

if not we will blow oursleves to bits or create a deformation of a society  featuring all manner of human horrors and grotsequerie, to which modern technology will be put, to keep the anarchronistic power, oldm decayed and dying power structure in place

the only way current probloems can be solved..with social change, revolution, democracy instituded. 

all current social problems, of sexuality in particular and many other bad human behaviors, clearly traumatic..that we can see the causes of everwhere..slavery, indenture, genocides, feudal exploitations...all manner of opressions..can only be ended by a democracy in the hands of rthe people.  no minority controlled social organisation can address the needs of the people.  they er not the people but a nminority and would look after minority interests

only the majority interest can democratize society and make it whole. 

we must now deal with emotional consequences of our historical behavior positively, or it will consume us.  we must now become sane and the only way we can that is to democratize human society...control by the majority in the ineterst of the majority

Maps your evaluation of incest is flawed and bogus , the countries that you listed might not have it  emedded  in the legal code but it is frowned upon

[quote author=Kwami link=topic=71162.msg441697#msg441697 date=1347776868]
Maps your evaluation of incest is flawed and bogus , the countries that you listed might not have it  emedded  in the legal code but it is frowned upon
[/quote]


I made claims. implied a lot:


the incest taboo came out of revolutionary social change form the matriarchy to the patriarchy


that in many countries there  are no penalties for incest. I care whether incest is frowned upon in those places or not.  that is not my point.,.is of no relevance here. and from what I see there is no such frowning as you establish.


the facts are what I said..what I have found out to be true.  go check it out and bring what you find


I implied that there is currenly advocacy for the opening up of marriage to include any permutation that people desire.


that incest was once universal over great swaths of human society and there are records to back this up


I implied time frames and locations.  I never once implied any personal preferred choice on my part, any judgement of human social practice and behaviour..


I implied a certain evolutionary flow in human history, that there is build up that changes society qualitatively over time and that we are at such a point of qualitative change currently in which social breakdown is evident, bringing with  lots of old traumatic effects and behaviour to be resolved.


I implied that human collective experience can be treated like a case of emotional trauma in search for explanation of collective problematic collective  behaviour.....


I suggested, implied, said all of that and yu call it garbage, biased, flawed just like that, offering no explanation, no supporting argument for your conclusion.....


it is clear what I said triggered an angry emotional response in you


I mean I can call you in response an emotional, religious nut, who cant deal with an conception of things contrary to what you believes..who clearly has some emotional problem relevant to the issue of incest and my discussion has seriously ticked him off.


LET ME TELL YOU THIS:  THERE IS NO NEED FOR EMOTIONAL RESPONSE TO ANY DAMM THING THAT HAS HAPPENED IN HISTORY..IN THE HUMAN PAST.


IT HAS HAPPENED...IT IS COLLECTIVE HUMAN EXPERIENCE AND THERE IS NUTTEN ANYONE CAN DO ABOUT IT..OR THE FACT THAT IT HAS SET THE CURRENT HUMAN SOCIAL PLATE...THAT WHICH HAS HAPPENED BEING THE BEDROCK OF OUR CURRENT MAKE UP.


THE HOW OF IT, THE WHY OF IT IS CRUCIAL TO KNOW... IN EFFORTS TO RE-SET OUR CURRENT PLATE IN WAYS WE FIND EFFICACIOUS AND POSITIVE....THAT ENSURES FURTHER HUMAN SURVIVAL.


ISNT THAT THE DAMM POINT?


WHAT THE HELL DOES YOU EASTERN MYSTICISM CONTRIBUTE?  WHAT THE HELL DOES YOUR RELIGIOUS IMMERSION CONTRIBUTE?  ISNT ALL THAT NONSENSE PART OF THE PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE....


I could say all that but I will wait on you contrary argument of solid cohesion and some reference if you can..something that helps us forward.


I know my opinion is flawed.  all opinion must be flawed.  there is and can be absolutely nothing produced by humans that is without flaw.  that is the nature of things.  we do our best, incite argument, debate and more work to find out and improve all the time as a result...


that is why I await a good refutation from you...not your damm emotional stupidness above that makes no useful contribution to anything

Quote:[size=14px]Maps your evaluation of incest is flawed and bogus[/size]

there is a reason why for everything....


the incest taboo was not put there by god.  it is the result of human activity, established to meet some purpose deemed important by human beings.


and the answer is simple..must be simple... in the end as is always the case.  {Occams Razor}


at points of qualitative social change..revolutionary times..it is always marked by the passage from the old to the new...that the old has in fact grown old and dangerous and society must move forward and as is the nature of human society it takes a revolution to achieve the necessary change.


such change can be traumatic..some lose and others win.  but society is moved forward.


if the content of society has been exploitative for a long period then there has been great suffering all along, the relations in society have been totally violent and therefore those violent relations of  social forces in society gurantee that any revolutionary change would be/will be violent..extremely so.


there is social trauma caused every minute of every day in the workings of exploitative society..not only by direct violence but in the routine workings of society given the prejudice and exploitation, that guides the behaviour of people in regular everyday  matters.


it is known there was a general matriarchal social organisation, that it was communal and early,prolly the first form of social organization.


{ some argue that europe was patriarachal from the start..that europe also was pastoral and that the fatherhood and pastoral economy go hand in hand }


be that as it may the motherhood was clearly widespread and dominant.


on what ideological framework was the matriarchy built or evolved..how did it come to be and why did all the people believe it and follow it..as all the people followed the kings/monarchy in feudalism, or capitalism today?


and how did it change into the fatherhood that is our current social dispensation..the fatherhood  we can now recognise as done, exhausted and about to be evolved into another form of social organisation?


and if so.. what are the options that the fatherhood may evolve into, that the fatherhood itself gave rise to... as the means of dissolution of any social organization is born in the bosom of that very social form of social organisation itself...and why these options and not others?


there is no damm mysticism in all this.... solid questions about solid reality that have answers in  reality, some of which are known..which is why we can ask more, for if we know what we do know, we know also, that there are answers to all questions...that there is no mystery and all it is, is that we may not have answers to some questions now but that we will in time as investigations continue

http://www.stabroeknews.com/2009/opinion...s-not-new/