A Reminder and A Clarification!

Late on the green-eyed board, or earlier on this one, in an open discussion, Sketchim clearly and unambiguously established for all to see, that he believed that there will never, ever be racial peace in the west indies because Indians,  Hindu and Pakistani, will never, ever integrate with people of African descent in anyway at all, socially and otherwise, sufficiently enuff to bring such peace to the region.

sketchim was open and clear and confident in that prediction.  he knew what he was talking about and he made no equivocations...there was no uncertainty in him at all

THAT THREAD IS THERE IN THE ARCHIVES FOR ALL TO ACCESS IF THEY WANT TO.

I CHALLENGE AND DARE SKETCHIM TO GO FIND THAT POST OF HIS AND BRING IT FORWARD, TO PROVE I AM LYING ON HIM IF HE BELIEVES THAT I AM

the question is why he said so..on what basis of fact and experience did he so conclude ::confused::

the only other time i saw kecthim so confident is when he also established, that in his personal experience of white people, he had detected a racism on their part towards black people so virulent and deep, that he was convinced that there would never, ever come a time also, when there could possibly be racial peace between whites and blacks.

I disagreed with both conclusions and tried to establish a contrary basis for racial peace, but sketchim would have none of it.  he was confident in his experience as decisive.

but I too am a believer in the sovereignty of experience as decisive in decision making/concluding on issues..personal experience as the rock solid basis of mental activity.  the difference is in the quality and nature of differering experience of and in life.

I beg to disagree with ketchim, yet I know racism to be so strong that it is a very powerful, driving factor in human existence.  that is why I ultimately came to the same conclusion as ketchim and developed my back to Africa idea.

I think it is best to kick all interlopers out of Africa... save the chinese with whom there has always been a strong African working relationship...and the return of all Africans world wide to Africa.

that I believe, am convinced of,  is best for Africans and best for the world.  that way we can all live in peace in the ways we want to. 

there is nothing I have in the rest of the word that I cant just walk away from and go home.  better to say it that I don't want anything in the rest of the world that matter so much to me I cant give it to go home.  at least I can liquidate my stuff, take what  I am worth and go home.

the rest of the world can keep such as Obama..I don't want him anywhere near me.  he has chosen his white half and so be it.  he is a traitor and we don't need those.  those will be a problem for the whites for they will be useless when all the black people go home.  they wont have anything and anyone to betray.  useless and parasitic the white people will probably gas them all.

that possibility I don't give a fig about.

go find your post ketchim..and free me from all the opprobrium I sense here.  is not me who set up the reality we have to deal with.... isyou.

[quote author=mapoui link=topic=103527.msg687696#msg687696 date=1459596509]
Late on the green-eyed board, or earlier on this one in an open discussion, Sketchim clearly and unambiguously established for all to see that he believed that there will never ever be racial peace in the west indies because Indians,  Hindu and Pakistani will never ever integrate with people of African descent in anyway at al, socially and otherwise, sufficiently enuff to bring such peace to the region.[/quote]
That possible scenario would only exist in the English speaking part. Places like Suriname has a far more integrated policy, where racial issues like this are far less acceptable.

Less or more acceptable is irrelevant , Watooka.

The world is clear on Hindus non acceptance of Muslims

That Partition 60 years ago is stuck in the so called Motherland craw.

Recent reports also shows India Hindu fundametalism.

Likewise recent Trump headlines has shown the true colors of White people .

Telling descendants of slaves of 500 years past to Go Back to Africa.

Inherent is racism of which I said is a worse disease than Cancer

and there is no Cure.

Quote:That Partition 60 years ago is stuck in the so called Motherland craw.

A partition designed by a white lawyer who never set foot in India and who spent the rest of his life feeling guilty about the line he arbitrarily drew.

I think ordinary Hindus and ordinary Muslims are fine living together. Likewise, in the West Indies, ordinary Africans, whites and Indians are fine living together. It's simpler things which cause jealousy, violence and hate. Things like land, food and money. Religion, "race" and cultural differences are just a pretext.

Indeed, in Trinidad, racial problems only started after economic gaps widened and only after big oil money started flooding into the country.

Quote:Hindu and Pakistani will never ever integrate with people of African descent in anyway at al, socially and otherwise

There's nothing inherently good about "integration". If people want to be by themselves, let them. If they don't want to intermarry or don't want to accept other people's customs or beliefs, let them. You can't force people to like each other. Just let things play out and be happy if and when people start trans-culturally hugging. Bland homogenity shouldn't be a goal.

But in first world nations, "integration" is really just a codeword which begs white people to accept cheap immigrant labour and which begs cheap, scapegoated, immigrant labour to be more tolerant of the angry white people whose jobs they have displaced.

In Trinidad, "integration" is just a codeword which begs everyone to turn a blind eye to economic problems and which begs everyone to occasionally vote for a party lead by a leader of the opposite "race".

Quote:sufficiently enuff to bring such peace to the region

It's the other way around. "Integration" doesn't bring peace to a region. Unstable regions use "lack of integration" rhetoric to distract from why regions are unstable in the first place. The word allows you to blame the victims.

Quote:that is why I ultimately came to the same conclusion as sketchim and developed my back to africa plan.

You'll need to implement some new economic policies...

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/art...1914001070

...on your magical, new United States of Africa. Otherwise you're going to start bringing in cheap Chinese and Indian workers, whom your Happy African populace will probably hate integrating with.

[quote author=ketchim link=topic=103527.msg687772#msg687772 date=1459619264]
Less or more acceptable is irrelevant , Watooka.

The world is clear on Hindus non acceptance of Muslims[/quote]
Again, I would consider Suriname an exception. It is quite normal for Hindus and Muslims to marry each other in Suriname. I have been to several of those weddings when I was a teenager. To give an example of how integrated they are over there, in the city the main mosque and main synagogue are right next to each other and share the same car park.

Quote:There's nothing inherently good about "integration".

I though I was clear in what I meant by integration..it is inclusive in this case..all social levels  in the west indies..english. I don't know about Suriname.

I don't know how relevant is the term 'inherently' in regard to integration.. but I am concerned with the Trinidad reality which I used to know intimately. 

there cannot be separation in Trinidad..or partition of the island.

the oil would have to be shared to make either of the sides viable in any separation, to any reasonable degree.  but east/west/north/south the oil fields cant be cut geographically in fairness leaving equal parts for either group in separation.

in Trinidad unless the oil fields are cut out and operated in the interest of both sides..and a split effected north and south of the other land... that might work.  the border between north and south cud be Arena Road/Carapiechima, Freeport Junction, Waterloo on the southern main road

but when I talk of integration I am talking socially, in routine life:  where people work, shop, go to school, entertainment etc.  I talking about the nation functioning in the interest of all its people, and all can do as is necessary in life without prejudice, unfairness etc.

that requires social integration which is kind of a fact on the ground already but is under threat by the disproportionate growth of Hindu power. 

that is not Hindu fault.  they look to develop and get strong.  and that is the right way to go.  the society as a whole must not stop Hindu growth but must find ways to reconcile it with the needs of the society without prejudice and with operational in fairness.

Ketchim say dat cyar happen and that Hindu will be a problem forever in Titty..that Hindu will always be a hindrance to this kind of 'integration' or social development.

I think ketchim has a point but how ironclad reality is is questionable.  I still think change for the better, the 'integration' I have in mind is possible.  Indeed it must take place for all the alternatives are truly bad save the one I outlined..back to Africa, leaving the region to Indos and whoever else

[quote author=mapoui link=topic=103527.msg687860#msg687860 date=1459653261]
I though I was clear by what I meant by integration..it is inclusive in this case..all social levels  in the west indies..english. I don't know about Suriname.
[/quote]
I had a big argument with that West Indian write Gautam many years ago about something similar.
The British did not care about trying to get the newly imported replacements for the freed slaves to integrate. The Dutch had a different idea however when they brought over Asian workers to Suriname. Those that could not integrate were not allowed to settle once their five year tenure had expired. They used the same method to abolish the Indian cast system in Suriname. 

Quote:The Dutch had a different idea however when they brought over Asian workers to Suriname. Those that could not integrate were not allowed to settle once their five year tenure had expired. They used the same method to abolish the Indian cast system in Suriname.

its a lil' late for that now in the english west indies.  we have to deal with what we have now and it wont be easy.

however TD should note that I am fully aware of the state of my back to Africa formulation.  yet it is an idea well worth statement/expression, exposure and exposition of

I was wondering about you TD.  you would not say anything at all about all that flowed previously.  thanks for your response on this.  I appreciate it even if I disagree along the way.

as I have already said I am aware of the status of my back to Africa idea in current reality.  yet all you say about 'first world nations we are all well aware of.  it is their historical/current movement in the world that has given rise to our problems currently..that we must evolves solutions for.

but the way things have evolved among the nations/peoples affected by first world movement gives me pause and sends be back to Africa.  there is the truth that the affected must collectives to end first world depredations over the same period, and to correct the damage done.  the first world must be stopped and correction developed and applied.

how do we do that in the reality we have when we see the intransigence of the facts on the ground.  I say for me back to Africa.  it is a huge continent full of space and potential. enough for all of us.  I see no difficulty walking away from the first world and all its works..its developed cities etc.  that is of absolutely no value to me.  I can help build my own.

there is absolutely nothing in first world life that enthralls me.  and the company of first world people is not something of importance to me.  in fact if I could erect a barrier between them, and I and mine, I would instantly... for their life is collective suicide as far as I see and I would be well out of it, out of their way.

no difficulty you list for Africa is outside our ken and ability to deal with effectively.  and deal with effectively we will the more and completely the first world is out of our collective hair

Quote:There's nothing inherently good about "integration". If people want to be by themselves, let them. If they don't want to intermarry or don't want to accept other people's customs or beliefs, let them. You can't force people to like each other. Just let things play out and be happy if and when people start trans-culturally hugging. Bland homogenity shouldn't be a goal.

But in first world nations, "integration" is really just a codeword which begs white people to accept cheap immigrant labour and which begs cheap, scapegoated, immigrant labour to be more tolerant of the angry white people whose jobs they have displaced.

In Trinidad, "integration" is just a codeword which begs everyone to turn a blind eye to economic problems and which begs everyone to occasionally vote for a party lead by a leader of the opposite "race".