[quote author=ketchim link=topic=102173.msg676171#msg676171 date=1454104096]
Credit to his ODI performance
But 5 days Format is not a different kettle of fish ?? :-\
Both him and Hashim were Bulldozed !!
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Exactly my point, and since when discussing test match cricket have people brought up the one day figures to back up their arguments?
I agree that his ODI figures are impressive but how does that relate to his test match captaincy so far? I know it's early days, but if you carry on losing games and getting out for a duck, when is the time to admit that captaining a one day side is totally different to the 5 day format?
[quote author=pwarbi link=topic=102173.msg676199#msg676199 date=1454158890]
Exactly my point, and since when discussing test match cricket have people brought up the one day figures to back up their arguments?
I agree that his ODI figures are impressive but how does that relate to his test match captaincy so far? I know it's early days, but if you carry on losing games and getting out for a duck, when is the time to admit that captaining a one day side is totally different to the 5 day format?
[/quote]
Firstly, you argued that being captain was too much pressure for ABdV. I countered that by providing ABdV's numbers as a captain of the ODI side. While it is not an apples to apples comparison, it shows that ABdV is in no way affected by handling the role as captain.
Secondly, as Test captain under ABdV, South Africa have won 1 and lost 1. This is also not a good South Africa side. They won just 1 Test in all of 2015.
Thirdly, as I stated in my previous post, 4 innings is a minuscule sample size that it is worthless and no way predictive. It is pointless to try and make any assumptions from 2 matches and 4 innings.
[quote author=ketchim link=topic=102173.msg676049#msg676049 date=1454081039]
I hav to reasses my view of AB
How on earth could he have enjoyed 3 ducks in a row ? :-\
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Captaincy is about more than individual performance. Far better for him to get 2 ducks and lead the team to victory than to score a load of runs and end up on the losing side.
I'm sure AB enjoyed the fact that under his captaincy South Africa finally broke their losing streak despite being without the services of some of their best bowlers.
[quote author=Gina145 link=topic=102173.msg676878#msg676878 date=1454545815]
Captaincy is about more than individual performance. Far better for him to get 2 ducks and lead the team to victory than to score a load of runs and end up on the losing side.
I'm sure AB enjoyed the fact that under his captaincy South Africa finally broke their losing streak despite being without the services of some of their best bowlers.
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Good to hear from you Gina. I hope all is well with you. How excited are you about Rabada? He looks like he going to be an absolute star. If South Africa can stabilise their batting, they should come good again, especially due to their bowling depth. I just hope that Steyn can shake off his injuries and we get to see a pace trio of Steyn/Rabada/Morkel going forward.
[quote author=dillinger10 link=topic=102173.msg676222#msg676222 date=1454173917]
Firstly, you argued that being captain was too much pressure for ABdV. I countered that by providing ABdV's numbers as a captain of the ODI side. While it is not an apples to apples comparison, it shows that ABdV is in no way affected by handling the role as captain.
Secondly, as Test captain under ABdV, South Africa have won 1 and lost 1. This is also not a good South Africa side. They won just 1 Test in all of 2015.
Thirdly, as I stated in my previous post, 4 innings is a minuscule sample size that it is worthless and no way predictive. It is pointless to try and make any assumptions from 2 matches and 4 innings.
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Well yes, that's what I didn't understand because as you've said yourself, the figures you quoted was of his captaincy of the one day side, and I don't think that as anything to do with his captaincy of a test side. That was my point, they're two totally different things.
His test captaincy is still early days, but it's not got off to the best of starts when looking at how it's affected his own performance on the pitch, that's all I was meaning about the amount of pressure that he might be feeling.
His performance in the ODI yesterday wasn't great, but he couldn't do much about that on the run, one handed miracle catch that got him out, so that can't really be brought up, unlike in the test matches, were I think he was to blame.
While the AB fanboys in us may not like this, we have accept that AB is no superhuman as he is touted to be. He has to manage his body since sportsmen have a short shelf life and they must make the most of their hey days. On top of that South Africa have inundated him with too many responsibilities; it is sad to see that he is being to made to keep wickets, captain the team and is expected to score the bulk of runs since the other batsmen in the team are out of form. With continuous cricket being played and the IPL to add to it the players get barely any respite. I am sad to say this but if we want to see AB continue playing for a longer period of time we have to be fine with him retiring from Test Cricket.
[quote author=pwarbi link=topic=102173.msg676903#msg676903 date=1454580061]
Well yes, that's what I didn't understand because as you've said yourself, the figures you quoted was of his captaincy of the one day side, and I don't think that as anything to do with his captaincy of a test side. That was my point, they're two totally different things.
His test captaincy is still early days, but it's not got off to the best of starts when looking at how it's affected his own performance on the pitch, that's all I was meaning about the amount of pressure that he might be feeling.
His performance in the ODI yesterday wasn't great, but he couldn't do much about that on the run, one handed miracle catch that got him out, so that can't really be brought up, unlike in the test matches, were I think he was to blame.
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I am not sure why you keep pointing to those 4 innings as proof that ABdV can't handle being a captain. 4 innings is a meaningless small sample size that has no predictive value. It is pointless to say that ABdV can't handle the pressure of being a Test captain based on 4 innings. It would be the equivalent of writing off Graham Gooch after his first Test because was dismissed for a pair of ducks.
Also, as Gina mentioned, there is more to being a captain than simply scoring runs. Mike Brearley is a prime example of this. Brearley is widely considered to be England's greatest ever captain. He batted in the middle order and finished with a career average of 22!
I think you are focusing too much on ABdV's batting and not what he does as a captain, both on the field and off it. ABdV is fantastic at handling the media, all the players respect him and he is a good on-field captain. Did you watch the final two matches of the Test series? If so, what did you think of ABdV's captaincy, his field placements, his bowling changes, etc. Did you feel he was too defensive? Too attacking?
[quote author=dillinger10 link=topic=102173.msg676891#msg676891 date=1454563943]
Good to hear from you Gina. I hope all is well with you. How excited are you about Rabada? He looks like he going to be an absolute star. If South Africa can stabilise their batting, they should come good again, especially due to their bowling depth. I just hope that Steyn can shake off his injuries and we get to see a pace trio of Steyn/Rabada/Morkel going forward.
[/quote]
I'm amazed by how well Rabada has been doing at such a young age. I just get a bit nervous about how hard they're making him work. My friend's father always used to say that young fast bowlers should be restricted in how much they were allowed to bowl to prevent serious injuries that would affect their entire career. I wonder how he'd have felt about Rabada's workload. Unfortunately with the injuries to our other bowlers, we really have relied heavily on him over the last few weeks and I was really glad to see him rested in the last game - even if we did lose.