India's Away Day Blues

[quote author=bala24 link=topic=99579.msg651213#msg651213 date=1439700035]
India has been on the decline in the test format,maybe the shift from the Sachin/Dravid/Laxman to the Kohli/Pujara/Rahane era isn't fruitful.

I mean they either are too young to take the mantle or are fundamentally wrong in their tactics to play bowlers. I reckon its the former.

India doesn't have an old warhorse to guide them along on the field.
[/quote]

Rather than hijack the thread discussing Australia's batting woes in recent years, I thought I would break this out into its own thread.

India's overall Test record since 2000:

2000 - 2004 - 20 (W) / 17 (L) / 15 (D) batting ave: 36.08; bowling ave: 35.17
2005 - 2009 - 20 (W) / 10 (L) / 21 (D) batting ave: 40.31; bowling ave: 35.79
2010 - 2014 - 21 (W) / 20 (L) / 12 (D) batting ave: 34.60; bowling ave: 37.33

Rather interestingly, India's overall record between 2010-2014 is almost identical to their record from 2000-2004.

From 2005-2009 India went through a purple patch (20 wins, 10 losses, 21 draws). Looking over the numbers, one thing that stands out to me is the difference in batting. From 2000-2004 India averaged 36.08. From 2010-2014 they averaged 34.60. But during their purple patch between 2005-2009, they averaged 40.31.

For reference, their bowling average is almost identical throughout this period.

However, if we dig a little deeper, we find that the real difference is how poor India have been away from home. Their home/away statistics can be seen below and clearly show their struggles.

Home

2000 - 2004 - 10 (W) / 5 (L) /  8 (D) batting ave: 36.53; bowling ave: 32.87
2005 - 2009 - 11 (W) / 3 (L) / 10 (D) batting ave: 43.61; bowling ave: 36.36
2010 - 2014 - 15 (W) / 3 (L) /  4 (D) batting ave: 42.64; bowling ave: 30.69

Away

2000 - 2004 - 10 (W) / 12 (L) /  7 (D) batting ave: 35.73; bowling ave: 37.24
2005 - 2009 - 9 (W) /    7 (L) / 11 (D) batting ave: 37.54; bowling ave: 35.30
2010 - 2014 - 6 (W) /  16 (L) /  8 (D) batting ave: 30.45; bowling ave: 43.21

Over the last 5 years especially, they have really struggled batting away from home with an average of 30.45, while their bowling average has ballooned to 43.21 - third worst in Test cricket over this period (better than only Bangladesh and Sri Lanka). That is not a good combination.

India are still a formidable Test team when playing at home, but when they play away, they are extremely poor - especially their bowlers. Zaheer Khan and Ishant Sharma are the only two bowlers to have taken 35+ wickets over this period, while Zaheer Khan is the only bowler that has played a minimum of 7 matches with an average under 35.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/...;type=team

And most of those wins don't result in series wins.

Even with Tendulkar in his prime, India didn't win many games, especially away. It was the rise of Dravid and Laxman who briefly claimed them a few series wins away from home.

When Australia transitioned from the Ponting era to the Clarke era, India seemed to be on the ascent, but that had more to do with the retirement of great Aussie bowlers (all Tendulkar's big scores against the Aussies came with the retirement of their decent bowlers).

Then the rise of guys like Cook, Flintoff, Amla, ABDV and Pietersen started knocking India down. I think the 2012 Eng/India tour was the first Eng series win in India in almost 3 decades.

Kohli, Rahane and Pujara have the potential to be every bit as good as Lax, Dravid and Tendy, but you can't really get wins without a good bowling attack. India has never had a great attack. And with the BCCI's new grass laws (they want a few cm of grass on every Indian pitch, so their batsmen become less of flat track bullies), local spinners are getting much less domestic games. So now India will perhaps start sucking at producing both spinners and fast bowlers, which puts them at a disadvantage even in the subcontinent.

[quote author=TRINIDADDY link=topic=99619.msg651219#msg651219 date=1439719861]
And most of those wins don't result in series wins.

Even with Tendulkar in his prime, India didn't win many games, especially away. It was the rise of Dravid and Laxman who briefly claimed them a few series wins away from home.

When Australia transitioned from the Ponting era to the Clarke era, India seemed to be on the ascent, but that had more to do with the retirement of great Aussie bowlers (all Tendulkar's big scores against the Aussies came with the retirement of their decent bowlers).

Then the rise of guys like Cook, Flintoff, Amla, ABDV and Pietersen started knocking India down. I think the 2012 Eng/India tour was the first Eng series win in India in almost 3 decades.

Kohli, Rahane and Pujara have the potential to be every bit as good as Lax, Dravid and Tendy, but you can't really get wins without a good bowling attack. India has never had a great attack. And with the BCCI's new grass laws (they want a few cm of grass on every Indian pitch, so their batsmen become less of flat track bullies), local spinners are getting much less domestic games. So now India will perhaps start sucking at producing both spinners and fast bowlers, which puts them at a disadvantage even in the subcontinent.
[/quote]

@dillinger10..Mindblowing to how you get these stats so easily..!!

@TRINIDADDY..

Exactly,a tinge never really will suffice.They need to structure it perfectly.They need to have a good spin base and a quality fast bowler who can still be deadly on a flat track.

In population count of more than 1.3 billion,can't they find one quality bowler.??

They need a resurrection in all departments else they will continue to be scapegoats in all series.!!

Well India has not been the best team away from home when they face top raking oppositions. It would appear that India is experience a slump in the last 5 years because of the retirement of some key players.

India lack of Fast bowlers may be due to lack of Beef Eaters :

                               

[quote author=bala24 link=topic=99619.msg651221#msg651221 date=1439724004]
@dillinger10..Mindblowing to how you get these stats so easily..!!

@TRINIDADDY..In population count of more than 1.3 billion,can't they find one quality bowler.??
[/quote]

bala, methink the Squad selection base is restricted to the upper Caste ?  :-\

and like the West Indies : less than 6 million ...

[quote author=Rowe992 link=topic=99619.msg651223#msg651223 date=1439731680]
Well India has not been the best team away from home when they face top raking oppositions. It would appear that India is experience a slump in the last 5 years because of the retirement of some key players.
[/quote]
They have been poor when facing all opposition away from home, not just the top ranked teams. As to your second point, Tendulkar, Dravid, Laxman, Sehwag, Dhoni were all still a part of the Indian team through 2012, while Tendulkar, Sehwag and Dhoni were also a part of the 2013 teams. So to say that their slump over the last 5 years is because of the retirement of some players is not fair, these players all played on these Indian teams.

They still play extremely well at home - over this period, India has the best home win/loss ratio - the real culprit is their inability to play Test matches outside of India. To simply say that their problems stem from the retirement of certain key players is not just lazy but also not grounded in the facts.

As Trinidaddy pointed out, their bowling attack, especially away, is really poor, and their spinners are nullified. A prime example of this is Ashwin; his bowling average (24.12) and strike rate (51.1) at home is excellent but his numbers become very ordinary when forced to play away from home (bowling average of 41.35 and a strike rate of 75.4).

Between 2005 and 2009, India had six bowlers that took 35+ wickets away from home (Kumble, Khan, Harbhajan Singh, RP Singh, Pathan and Sreesanth). All of these bowlers had an average under 37. This at least allowed them to be competitive away from home during this period.

[quote author=ketchim link=topic=99619.msg651246#msg651246 date=1439737927]
bala, methink the Squad selection base is restricted to the upper Caste ?  :-\

and like the West Indies : less than 6 million ...
[/quote]

Politics..!! YES,a big YES..It is happening,still.
I don't know how they still manage to wrap it all under covers.

@dillinger10
No you didn't note one point.The team never really stayed the same throughout.Never really did all the Fab 5 play together after 2009.They were rested,causing imbalance in the squad.

They knew they were going into transition,they brought in a new blend.They still are trying their best to form the next generation.I am sure they will recover well from this slump.

[quote author=bala24 link=topic=99619.msg651368#msg651368 date=1439772670]
No you didn't note one point.The team never really stayed the same throughout.Never really did all the Fab 5 play together after 2009.They were rested,causing imbalance in the squad.

They knew they were going into transition,they brought in a new blend.They still are trying their best to form the next generation.I am sure they will recover well from this slump.
[/quote]

The scorecards seem to suggest otherwise, Between 2010-2012 India played 35 Test matches. Dhoni played in 33 matches, Tendulkar 32, Sehwag 30, Dravid 27 and Laxman 26. Over this period, they played 19 matches away from home, of which Dravid appeared in all 19, Laxman played in 18, Dhoni 17, Tendulkar 16 and Sehwag 14.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, India have been almost unbeatable at home, so it is clear that the talent is there within the team. The problem is they are exceptionally poor when playing away from home and a large part of that is due to the ineffeciency of their spinners.

One of the reasons why things have been a little dire for India as of last is that they have yet to play a home Test match since November 2013. Their last 15 Test matches have all been played away from home.

In 27 innings over this period, India's bowlers have allowed 8 scores of 500+ and 7 scores of 300+. They have bowled a team out for under 200 just 3 times. When teams are scoring 300+ 56% of the time they bat, you are going to have a hard time competing in games consistently, let alone winning.

Just to dig deeper into this, India have been especially bad in the opposing teams first innings, allowing 7 scores of 500+ and 4 scores of 300+ in 15 innings. They have bowled teams out for under 250 just 3 times. Opposing teams average first innings total is 415.93.

To put this into context, away teams conceeding 400+ runs in the first innings of a Test have won just 5.12% of all matches played in the history of the game. I went back and painstakingly dug through every scorecard; there have 684 instances where home teams scored at least 400 runs in their first innings. These teams have gone on to win 380 matches, drawn 268 and lost just 35. There was also one tie in there for good measure (West Indies vs Australia in 1960). As you can see, their bowlers are just not giving the team a chance to win away from home.

I would also argue that 5 years is not a slump but a trend. This is not a knock on India, this applies to all teams in Test cricket. Winning matches away from home in recent years has become increasingly difficult; South Africa are the only team with a winning away record over this period.

[quote author=dillinger10 link=topic=99619.msg651385#msg651385 date=1439792896]
The scorecards seem to suggest otherwise, Between 2010-2012 India played 35 Test matches. Dhoni played in 33 matches, Tendulkar 32, Sehwag 30, Dravid 27 and Laxman 26. Over this period, they played 19 matches away from home, of which Dravid appeared in all 19, Laxman played in 18, Dhoni 17, Tendulkar 16 and Sehwag 14.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, India have been almost unbeatable at home, so it is clear that the talent is there within the team. The problem is they are exceptionally poor when playing away from home and a large part of that is due to the ineffeciency of their spinners.

One of the reasons why things have been a little dire for India as of last is that they have yet to play a home Test match since November 2013. Their last 15 Test matches have all been played away from home.

In 27 innings over this period, India's bowlers have allowed 8 scores of 500+ and 7 scores of 300+. They have bowled a team out for under 200 just 3 times. When teams are scoring 300+ 56% of the time they bat, you are going to have a hard time competing in games consistently, let alone winning.

Just to dig deeper into this, India have been especially bad in the opposing teams first innings, allowing 7 scores of 500+ and 4 scores of 300+ in 15 innings. They have bowled teams out for under 250 just 3 times. Opposing teams average first innings total is 415.93.

To put this into context, away teams conceeding 400+ runs in the first innings of a Test have won just 5.12% of all matches played in the history of the game. I went back and painstakingly dug through every scorecard; there have 684 instances where home teams scored at least 400 runs in their first innings. These teams have gone on to win 380 matches, drawn 268 and lost just 35. There was also one tie in there for good measure (West Indies vs Australia in 1960). As you can see, their bowlers are just not giving the team a chance to win away from home.

I would also argue that 5 years is not a slump but a trend. This is not a knock on India, this applies to all teams in Test cricket. Winning matches away from home in recent years has become increasingly difficult; South Africa are the only team with a winning away record over this period.
[/quote]

God you really need a title here..Stats GURU

@The Chairman
@Ketchim@Mail Stah
@TriniDaddy

WHat say sirs

Maybe yes India have not had a slump..!!
but wait i am not even able to talk back to the pile of stats you have given here.