WEST INDIES: Was The Trinidad Win Just An Anomaly ?

The most easy thing to see is reality..yet it is the hardest thing to deal with.

west indies imposed Gibson and Sammy, Powell, an unfit Cottrell etc..on itself and on us and we have been losing steadily for years, in which the teams were unbalanced, unproductive, especially the batting.

all of a sudden we make a positive change..Ramdin for /Sammy and placed a balanced side on the field.  the minute we got rid of Powell, an ineffective Shillingford and balanced the side with 2 good young batsmen, 4 of our best bowlers, things changed for the better.  and immediately as things changed on the field we could see the same superior attitude emerging..not only emerge but dominate.

its as if we are champions again and we did not have to build up..as if we what we earned at the QPO was not a start but an arrival at greatness once again..so we could chop and change going after the win when what we should have been doing is consolidation..making sure we did not lose first, not to traumatise the side again but not to lose to build up the good feeling and success.

but no yuh see.  Ambrose is the big brains, the great legend who knows that Holder would be better than Gabe.  and of course the selectors may have been prevented from selecting Narine by the Pie Bus.  so instead of building up the side there they were chopping and changing to beat the Kiwi

but lets demonstrate the stupidity of it all.  in the first place despite our decisive victory in the QPO the reality is that this west indies team is not better than the Kiwi on the field.  but most importantly there is no part of west indies cricket that is smarter and more consistent than the Kiwi in what the have implemented as wise strategy for them.  the are smart, intelligent and do things the way they should be done.  the Kiwi are on the ball and adjust all the time..and intelligently so. they keep a balanced side at all times and change their team only when it is necessary to do so.

meantime here is absolutely nothing smart about west indies cricket.  you win 1 test match in 15 and all of a sudden you are planning to go after a win by weakening your side.  you KNOW what you have in Gabe but Holder is a guess..Ambrose guess.  you take that guess just like that.

Shillys bowling is guess work which is why he was dropped at the QPO.  yet you bring him when Narine's bowling is no guess.  the last time he played the Kiwi he took a 6-fer.  they respect and fear him and if they had him, would play him in their team before any other spinner they have.  yet he sits for Shilly.

this team made no sense to me and I panned it from the start, first day as soon as I saw it written down.  ambrose is no dam improvement over Gibson.  the team will soon see that and he will lose all their respect.

and they shud get rid of Holder.  he is the worst of the young lot and has no future.  there are others.  time to give them a break,  but most importantly it is time to get rid of Gibson and the whole passel of assistants he has brought to Factory road

HERE'S THE DEAL

* If the Kiwis declare overnight---WI will go for the win----they'll play some reckless shots---and lose the match.

* If the Kiwis declare after an hour----the West Indies will draw the test.

Rev

[quote author=mapoui link=topic=90835.msg572509#msg572509 date=1404084546]
The most easy thing to see is reality..yet it is the hardest thing to deal with.
[/quote]

* You made some valid points.

* But your prejudice against 23 year old Jason Holder is unfair.

* The kid is playing in his first test match----he scored 38 runs and has taken 2 wickets in the 2nd innings.

* He has been more productive with the ball in the Barbados test than Jerome Taylor and Shane Shillingford.

* The young man deserves a run in the #8 ranked West Indies team.

* Like you I am concerned that he is another slow poke like Darren Sammy----you don't take much test wickets bowling 128 KMH/79 MPH.

* ANYWAY, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU ARE ROOTING FOR A WI LOSS IN BARBADOS MAPPY.

Rev

I don't know. It kinda reminds me of that win against Pakistan (in 2012 was it?) and where they drew the series. Didn't exactly reflect on rest of the matches that followed. I don't know, will have to see. Let this match be over first anyway.

Overall still a good result, 1-1.

Quote:* ANYWAY, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU ARE ROOTING FOR A WI LOSS IN BARBADOS MAPPY.

dont try to play games with me Rev.  it is you and ketchim who want west indies to loose... for obvious reasons.

Quote:[size=14pt]from the first day when I saw the side I blasted it to hell.  I pointed out that it was imbalanced and poorly selected..and that they were wrong to drop Gabe and Blackwood.  and from then on I have been panning them,,especially when I saw Holder bowl.  he is nowhere near good enough.

and I don't know what the hell you mean being kind and considerate  to Holder while not realising that you being hellishly unkind to Gabriel..and most injurious to west indies chances.  you are kind to Holder who has reduced west indies bowling effectiveness..while dismissive  of Gabriel who did much better and would most likely have done very very well in this match as Taylor ran into a wall.  and all the while west indies is losing despite holders 38[/size]

for the very first time in a long long while west indies displayed the makings of a balanced team that could grow into something worthwhile.  we radically improved the opening batting, doubled up on Sammy's old production level, and also radically improved #6.  up to just 2 matches ago we had a giant problem at #6.  Shive was always farming the tail trying to extend his score.  we never got 30 from the #6 far less 50.  shive was forever not out.

all of a sudden we have a young man who set the makings of a solution.  he scored 63.  try remember the last time a #6 scored 63 for the west indies?

but immediately as the makings of a solid balanced team emerges they chop and change it into a losing team.  the team as it was had been radically improved for all of  [size=36pt]1[/size] game from the losing team for 5 years running.  and you decide to go for the win and that this improved team..the best one we have had for every so long is not good enough and you had to bring back a lose and a debutante..Holder.. who had been losing favour until Ambrose arrived on the scene.

by any standard I can think off Holder does not measure up to Gabriel and should not have been pik before him.  Gabriel is just like Holder... a fine young west indian man, almost as tall, a year or 2 older,  a hard trier, strong of physique and character.  you have to be fair among these contenders and pik the the one most qualified..otherwise we end up cussing them like me and Holder.

I have nothing against Holder. I like him but he is not good enough and his 38 does not count because it got west indies nowhere save a silly 23 run lead. we don't need him for his batting but for wickets and he cannot take many.  he will not be able to bat to save west indies if wickets fall.  and lil Bravo may be injured so west indies is likely down to 4 batsmen.

[size=24pt]I don't know what the hell you are talking about rev but it does not make sense.  this is a losing side deh pik and holder is part of the problem not part of the solution.

you and everybody talking about Holder in a futuristic sense.  but they did not pik holder in that sense for this match..to blood him, introduce him for the future.  they pik him to take wickets..more wickets than Gabriel took.  their stated declaration was that they pik this side for the win..to beat the kiwi..to bowl them out twice and win.

it was a stupid over all selection given their stated intent[/size]

LOOK REV:

[size=24pt]IT IS NOW CLEAR.  THE SIDE THAT JUST WON IN TRINIDAD WAS THE BEST SIDE WE HAVE HAD FOR 5 YEARS..THE MOST BALANCED, THE MOST TALENTED AND THE MOST PRODUCTIVE...5 WHOLE FREAKING YEARS.

THE SELECTORS DID NOT RECOGNIZE THAT FACT AND IT IS ONLY NOW THAT WE {I} HAVE RAISED IT HERE.

THEY HAVE SMASHED THAT SIDE AND RETURNED TO AN UNBALANCED WEAKER SELECTION AND PREDICTABLY WE ARE LOSING.

PUT DAT IN YUH HAT.  IT IS TRUE AS DAYLIGHT[/size]

and it is not that I am glad west indies losing.  it is that I dont care any more.  I have had enuff! 

what I see here is total stupidity..and living in the past.  all our officials are rooted somewhere in the past..not attuned to current reality and needs at all.  they don't even know the past intimately.  they just hold on to their impressions of it and think that it is real, valid.. and use it as guide.

it is ambrose pik Holder just because he is tall.  it is inability to recognise that west indies are weak and needs to build up our game again.  there is no consistency based on fact, on the truth of our condition.  it is that myopia that is responsible for this jackass side losing to the Kiwi currently

the kiwi are smart and very realistic..which is why they beat us by allowing us defeat ourselves.  there is so much dotishness in and around west indies cricket I am tired of it. 

and this includes you Rev.  with all due respect you are not consistent and you end up defending nonsense like this Holder selection that is doing nothing for the west indies.

you say by the numbers Rev but there are no numbers that support Holders inclusion over Gabriel.  then you fall back on Holder will be good in time..the futuristic argument.. which is quite jackass, for that did not figure in his selection for this game at all.  when he replaced Gabriel we all expected that he would do better than Gabe..he had to for why else would they include him?

we expected that he would do well because he is 23 now and he has been in and around the west indies team since he was 20...3 years now.

Holder is practically an old hand, having played ODI and T20  and was dropped if you recall.  Holder is hardly your regular neophyte debutante.  so you cant be really futuristic about him at all, justifying your support for him as 'he will do well in the future.' 

NOW is the time for Jason...period!!!  if he is not ready after 3 years of preparation he will never be ready.

I have had enough of all this man.  the most stupid people run west indies cricket..Richie Richardson, Ambrose, Gibson, Buttsy, Courtney Browne, Pie Bus..all of them..stupid like shiiite.  they may have been been good to great cricketers some of them, but that does not mean they are smart administrators automatically

I will bet you that Holder will get dropped sometime this year and will be done as a top level player.  he is not good enough!

NZ are already leading by 307 runs and its already Day 4,if they declare overnight,WI should bat it out on a bowler friendly pitch.Right now it is interestingly poised,with all three results possible.NZ would be looking to win,so expect a 350 as target.

[quote author=mapoui link=topic=90835.msg572527#msg572527 date=1404102243]
LOOK REV:

[size=24pt]IT IS NOW CLEAR.  THE SIDE THAT JUST WON IN TRINIDAD WAS THE BEST SIDE WE HAVE HAD FOR 5 YEARS..THE MOST BALANCED, THE MOST TALENTED AND THE MOST PRODUCTIVE...5 WHOLE FREAKING YEARS. [/size]
[/quote]

Mappy:

* Going into day 5 of the Barbados test, the probability favors a West Indies defeat if NZ declares overnight.

* If NZ keeps batting on day 5----there is a good chance the WI can draw this test.

* Anyway, if the WI were to lose the Barbados test, then you'll be 99% correct in your assessment above.

Rev

* If the WI were to

i dont see nz declaring