My First Final Thread in the Pitch..Are or Were West Indian Whites Superior....

To Black and Brown west indians ::confused:: ::confused:: ::confused:: ::confused:: ::confused::


the whites built cricket, conquered the world twice..as soon as black and brown man take over all fall down.

whites displayed creative and pioneering spirit in conquering the west indies and setting up all in it.

black/Brown west indians displayed creativity and high abilities in art..taking overs the white form and injecting all manner of excitement, flair and unique though technically correct ways to play his games, carry out all the art forms he brought with him and gave to his slaves and indentures.

from carnival to western music, fashion, painting, sports..the ethnic excelled but not when it came to running things.  we have failed because it s not only the white mans art we adopted but all his ways of exploitation.  we did not have to take his greed and prejudice, bad mind and personal wickedness to those like ourselves.  we walked with all of that ourselves..we had lots of natural greed we never lost.  in the white mans system the emphasized greed we are having a field day bleeding all we have since we take over.

we never lost all the nasty behavior in the white mans social manipulation to denude us of our rebellious tendencies.  the white man protected himself from that by making us love and protect him no matter what...no matter what he does to us.  but its open season on each other.

but for all his murderous nastiness the white man still left a legacy, parts of which are useful on which we still function after 400 years..like the nation state, literacy although the content of that literacy is european the content of the conqueror which cannot be good for us.  but now that we have the opportunity to change that reality we do not.  that is the furthest thing from our minds yet it is a realy important aspect of our social life that needs urgent attention.

to make a long story short..among the things the white man left as legacy is cricket and its administration.  cricket has been organized in the west since 1865..150 years now.  cricket can be said to have been building since that time up to 1995..for 130 years.  it took Mr Black and Mr Brown 20 years to lay 130 years flat on its back, barely breathing, about to gasp last on its way out.

and the very same west indian states out of which the cricket came are gasping last too, flailing about looking for sustenance.  Pheeeeeeeeeeew!!  we have been hard on those.  Jamaica is toast  borrowing money to pay it debt, selling at peppercorn price all its public wealth to multinational "INVESTORS" who turn around and soak the people on what they paid to build up and really belongs to them.

Bim in the same boat and all the rest save Titty so far.  but oil price drop and Titty is likely in heaps of trouble too.  I doh think deh save much when things were good. 

them west Indian elites in collusion with the banksters bleed those lil islands and Guyana till they now thin and emaciated economically like any scarecrow in a field to chase the birds away.  they have piled debt onto the west indian people like there was no tomorrow..literally enslaved the west indian people again but this time in a much more comprehensive manner which is likely to be terminal for the people

so who is better the white man who built-up...as opposed to the white bankers who enslave..two different groups of white elites..or the black parasitic elites who have worked their own people back into a worse slavery/indenture we come out of ::confused::

so who is bettah Forum..Misters Black and Brown, or................................................ ::confused:: ::confused:: ::confused:: ::confused::


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all doan be afriad to deliver heavy wood where it is necessary.  doan ease up.  let dem have it.  I have a truck load to help out
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lol, as a angry pseudo-communist, Maps, you should believe that good planning always eventually overcomes historical forces and economic set-backs. Russia went from horse-and-carriage-styled feudalism to space-faring superpower in about 8 years. Organisation and focus can do anything.

The WI need to:

1. Prepare better pitches. Hire some local old-timers and rasta-men to dedicate their lives to keeping these pitches nice and spicy.
2. Play 10x more test and ODI Games domestically
3. Expand the 4 day PCL competition to 5 days.
4. Schedule more games within the islands and between the islands
5. Let the best players play more games vs foreign teams, at home and abroad
6. Select your best players and force them to play a mandatory full year of English county cricket. Bribe the English clubs heavily for this opportunity.
7. Develop a computer system which tracks all regional players, which makes their stats available online, and which lets the players themselves know at a glance who their closest competition is and what they need to do, for upward selection, to beat their competition.
8. Scrap the WICB. The ICC gives millions of dollars to the WICB (100 million for hosting the World Cup) every year. This goes down a black hole.
9. Turn the leadership of West Indies cricket to the governments of each island, each of whom will have an equal share in the new body.
10. Force all West Indian cricket playing countries to give a couple million to the new body.
11. Scrap the WICB admin and let each island field an unpaid administrator, each with an equal say and vote. Let them meet online. Stop wasting money on airfare.
12. Stop paying coaches and support-staff so highly. Steamline and lower payments everywhere.
13. Stop ferrying players back and forth between islands. Create better schedules so that players are based on single islands for long periods of time.
14. Have set, dignified, payment rates for all domestic cricketers. You move up, you get paid more.
15. Get Guyana to make a cricket ball production factory. We tired of paying 50 US for a cricket ball.

etc etc.

You need serious man-power, focus, will-power and money to hammer a seriously hard-core domestic player production system into place. Money is not everything, though. India is rolling in big bucks and their team are hardly world-beaters, England likewise. And most of the greatest batsmen had no fancy training or money behind them; Bradman was great because he knocked a golfball on a water-tank, Lara with a broomstick and potted plants. Kohli and Tendulkar, likewise, were borne of poverty, not fancy ball machines and elaborate training facilities.

[quote author=TRINIDADDY link=topic=100058.msg654247#msg654247 date=1441465839]

15. Get Guyana to make a cricket ball production factory. We tired of paying 50 US for a cricket ball.
[/quote]

Rupununi Cow hyde : Good Leather !

Quote:a angry pseudo-communist

psuedo!!!!  ::confused:: ::confused:: ::confused:: ::confused::


what the hell is that ::confused:: ::confused:: ::confused:: 

where did you get that from..what I have been saying on this board to bring you to such a conclusion ::confused:: ::confused:: ::confused::

I had no idea!  I do not consider myself a communist or any thing of the kind.  I know some Marxism but always refrained from getting too deep and doctrinaire for what shud be obvious reasons..that is why I do not get into great detail and theory about anything here but speak as naturally as possible... off the top of my head, using my own reasoning, conclusions. and I don't care if I am wrong.  I don't know anyone who isn't.  my responsibility is to learn and correct myself as I go..in reality.

Marx himself said it clearly enough: there is no final word.  Mao said we must get up of our lazy asses and do the work that is necessary on any day, all days because there is no final word.  it just never ends, goes on and produces new challenges every freakin' minute

when you talk about planning like you do you indicate bureaucracy and I hate bureaucracy, which again should be obvious...the reasons why.

I prefer to work with existential need that people face, that they have lived with for a long time and know their reality well..so they can respond spontaneously..like if they their need relatively have not been met and it is as a result of class clash of interests, as it always is..they can rise and force reconciliation in cooperation with the government and in full participation in the development of solution and its implementation

or they can take over and do the same thing..spontaneously working out and applying a solution as they go..and correcting themselves all the time when they see where they have been wrong, all the time developing and honing their skills in the participatory democracy they would have begun to create.  what is required is that their needs be met in the situation.  that is what they work out, that is where they begin..how to meet their immediate needs that are not being met by the established power/system.  and they work it out right then and there and put it in, correcting as they go

I was never into parties and groups that surely evolve their own self interest dat departs from the general interest and we have the same situation all over again, of a dominant elite/bureau exploiting the people on its own sectarian and particular interest

I have never been a communist.  I have never seen life as anything but evolutionary, making every thing temporary, all doctrine provisional, no truth good for all time, all things developmental..and no party to anything must live at the expense of others.  at no time must there be groups of people living permanently off the wealth produced by others for whom a portion is set aside for, regardless of what it is called..tithes or taxes etc.

you have me all wrong man.  what you see me calling for here..but general participation, asking everyone to become a part, up to speed on all that is required to participate to produce the general democracy that would save us all ::confused::  it is the people in full development that would produce and protect democracy, bring humanity to full development.  there must be no sectarian leadership.  that can be only a product of the general exploitation of man by man..exactly what we have currently.

that has failed completely and what is required now is the opposite..what the Occupy movement represented..which is why Obama took special pains to destroy it.  that Occupy movement was the real article. it scared the sh!!ts out of the elites everywhere.

communist eh.  that is an insult TD

Quote:1. Prepare better pitches. Hire some local old-timers and rasta-men to dedicate their lives to keeping these pitches nice and spicy.
2. Play 10x more test and ODI Games domestically
3. Expand the 4 day PCL competition to 5 days.
4. Schedule more games within the islands and between the islands
5. Let the best players play more games vs foreign teams, at home and abroad
6. Select your best players and force them to play a mandatory full year of English county cricket. Bribe the English clubs heavily for this opportunity.
7. Develop a computer system which tracks all regional players, which makes their stats available online, and which lets the players themselves know at a glance who their closest competition is and what they need to do, for upward selection, to beat their competition.
8. Scrap the WICB. The ICC gives millions of dollars to the WICB (100 million for hosting the World Cup) every year. This goes down a black hole.
9. Turn the leadership of West Indies cricket to the governments of each island, each of whom will have an equal share in the new body.
10. Force all West Indian cricket playing countries to give a couple million to the new body.
11. Scrap the WICB admin and let each island field an unpaid administrator, each with an equal say and vote. Let them meet online. Stop wasting money on airfare.
12. Stop paying coaches and support-staff so highly. Steamline and lower payments everywhere.
13. Stop ferrying players back and forth between islands. Create better schedules so that players are based on single islands for long periods of time.
14. Have set, dignified, payment rates for all domestic cricketers. You move up, you get paid more.
15. Get Guyana to make a cricket ball production factory. We tired of paying 50 US for a cricket ball.

well within there how you reason, your view of the world  is clear which is why you do not see why such has not been done already.  some of the points you make are counter productive socially..like 

Quote:Stop ferrying players back and forth between islands

there is bound to be some travel between the territories of the region.  but there is the need to knit up the west indies for greater purposes, and such travel is essential in that regard. 

what is needed is real people oriented transportation in the west indies.  LIAT is ridiculous and counter productive.  the west indies need to develop sea transportation/travel that is safe and can move at the same time people and cargo throughout the west indies and central america regularly and in quick time..from guyana in the south to jamaica in the north, and across to the mainland and back around the caribbean sea.

by next week wednesday I will show you how that can be approached cost-effectively with great developmental benefit for the whole region

and now TD disappear!

oh well!

Quote:psuedo!!!!  what the hell is that 

I mean you are a semi-communist, or a communist without realising it. To me that's a compliment.

Quote:where did you get that from..what I have been saying on this board to bring you to such a conclusion

lol, everything you say on this board is extremely Left Wing. Ordinary people nowadays, let alone West Indians, don't go about thinking about the abolition of capitalism, let alone class issues and the effects of money. You need to embrace your inner commie.

Quote:some of the points you make are counter productive socially..like  Stop ferrying players back and forth between islands

What I meant to imply is that the international players should be together longer than the 1 week (now expanded to 2 weeks) training camp before each tour. That is not long enough. The reason this period is so short is because everyone lives on a different island and the WICB dont like ferrying people back and forth often for training. You need a way for them to be training together for longer periods, which means sticking them in some kind of permanent base camp. For the Sri Lanka tour, for example, I would send the whole team to Guyana for a month and have Permaul and Bishoo bowl at them every day (though I hear the Sri Lankan pitches nowadays are faster and bouncier and grassier than usual. Maybe Guyana is no longer analagous to the Sri Lankan pitches of 5-15 years ago).

Quote:well within there how you reason, your view of the world  is clear

What view of the world is that?

Quote:What view of the world is that?

well!  now that you have explained I must adjust that comment.

Quote:You need to embrace your inner commie.

except I wud not call it commie.  commie is too Bolshie... party/central committees/parasitic bureaucracy and state dictatorship/state capitalism..the dictatorship of the communist party etc.  that is out of the question for me. we must avoid that stage of social change and to so is to avoid the left wing party as organizer of social change... social change can be spontaneous, in need of no party organization. 

the blasted party is the problem. popular spontaneous response is the way forward.  and all along the way the party must be prevented from seizing the political power in the event of an uprising.  popular control is the way..the people creating forms of governance of themselves by themselves... to be run by popular organization all the way through.

right from the start the people must run the show period

tenks for you compliment anyway.  it is appreciated

There is nothing inherently wrong with bureaucracy or "central committees", and such things are not inherently "parasitic" or "exploitative".

If the end result of all these bureaucracies is always the same, it's because they're ultimately all obeying sixteenth century land, profit, money and market codes. They exist to compete.

Quote:the blasted party is the problem. popular spontaneous response is the way forward.  and all along the way the party must be prevented from seizing the political power in the event of an uprising.  popular control is the way..the people creating forms of governance of themselves by themselves... to be run by popular organization all the way through.

This is a kind of anarchist fantasy. "Popular spontaneous movements" are too stupid and disorganised to do anything and they usually just replicate what they replaced.

[quote author=TRINIDADDY link=topic=100058.msg654276#msg654276 date=1441488505]
There is nothing inherently wrong with bureaucracy or "central committees", and such things are not inherently "parasitic" or "exploitative".

If the end result of all these bureaucracies is always the same, it's because they're ultimately all obeying sixteenth century land, profit, money and market codes. They exist to compete.

This is a kind of anarchist fantasy. "Popular spontaneous movements" are too stupid and disorganised to do anything and they usually just replicate what they replaced.


[/quote]

you are wrong about bureaucracy and the party.  and there is nothing anarchist about that view of the situation.

are you a bureaucrat..either government or corporate

the problem is that there is always exploitation of man by man..society in a pyramid structure that we have proven all social evils derive from.  what is the basis of the evil then?

it is the fact that the wealth that feeds society is produced by some part of the population under duress, that the production does not belong to the producers, is taken away from them producers and used in its greatest part by others who have no part in its production.

the bureau is that part which exercises control of the society, collects the wealth and disburses it as IT sees fit, directed by those at the top.

if a structure does not produce the wealth it needs for its life how then does it get it if not by direct theft, slavery, and other forms of social coercion?

that is the lesson of social history.  it has been noted a form of socialism formed an early stage of human society that broke up into exploitative society and male domination  it is argued that there is a technological cause of that early change or revolution, and that technological advance is the basis o, and progenitor of all social change.  early socialism is argued is the basis  of the first mother dominated social organization.

and exploitation of society is what it is..EXPLOITATION!  and we learned to tell vast lies to cover such exploitation..like the lie about capitalism and business and free markets, hard work and intelligent investment makes for success..laissez faire capitalism.  well there is nothing truthful in there. it has been theft and plunder, piracy, slavery, financial criminality and monopoly all along the way.  it is what you are afraid of TD.. anarchy!  right now, existential.  take a look around you and see the capitalist chaos going on..Capitalist Anarchy, that now threatens the existence of our species.

but it is the exploitative principle and how it manifests itself that you apparently do not understand..or maybe due to self interest you find difficulty dealing with.  the social structure of exploitation is pyramid and those who do not produce the wealth at the top of the pyramid must take it from those who do or they would not survive.

that is why the structure...bureaucracy.. is parasitic because that is what its function is..to manage the exploitation.  and if it is exploitation its nature and spirit must be hostile because it is theft.  and the intellectual and ethical superstructure of the exploitation must justify the exloitation.  and tha hostility reulst in the police state we live because it is exploitation, theft and those who steal the wealth of society must protect themselves hence the police state.

they must bribe, lie, poison the education to make the people belive the lies and belive and act against themselves for the top of the pyramid represents a minority control.

all this must take place because it is theeft at the bottom of it all...exploitation. 

that is why the structure..the bureaucracy is inherently parasitic.  and the party is also. 

you see the party is leader, the brains and the brains does not produce its own means of subsistence.  again the brains must tax to eat..and tax means exploitation.  that is why  the communist parties turns into dictatorships and requires a further revolution to the one that was supposed to end all exploitation as in Russia.  the party itself became the dictators when it was supposed to lead to popular development and social control.  the party was supposed to create the means of its own demise..conditions in which the people would run the sate and achieve the democracy that is essential for full human development. 

instead the communist party made a vast dictatorship with draconian social control we have not seen before nor since.  the west is approaching that now however.

the principles gleaned is inherent in that little history.  if you do not earn your living you are a parasite taking from others who do.  if you set up a party and that party wins then they become parasitic.  they will never do all they promise and in turn they will fail and you must turn to another party.  but if the basis is parasitic then you have the recurring parasitism in western politics in which at every turn the parties fail and new elections begin the cycle again

more if necessary and later