***** Best and Worst Test Captains ****

[quote author=Mail link=topic=88087.msg552506#msg552506 date=1393889163]
Given the news of Smith's pending retirement, I thought he captained very well at the start and has been a key part of making the Proteas a winning team sustained for some time now.
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For modern day Captains .... Smiffy would have to rank among the best given he was so young when he became Cappo and all the off-field goings on he had to deal with like the quota system etc.  He has taken SA to the top .....

What has always been obvious is just how much respect and affection his team has for him and from his comments in retiring,

Quote:I'm extremely honoured and proud to have had the privilege to lead so many wonderful players

.... [i] I would say the feeling was mutual.

Smith was to prone to bad decisions for which he was never taken to task.

I prefer Pontin as my best recent captain

Border was good but too scared as captain if not as batsman.  west indies freaked him out as a team which made him too cautious to really push home advantages he gained against west indies.

Taylor wasn't bad for Oz..Gregg Chappell too.

the english captains?  pheeew!

Brealy was brilliant.  I give him his due.  but the english captains are terrorized by their media.  I loved Michael Vaughn as batsman and he might have been a good skipper for a time but for his injury which ended his career.

Nasser Hussein captained with one eye on he best opportunity to get out looking half decent.

Strauss too.  he skeedadalled as soon as he cud run without questions..leaving Cookie in the deep end with a HC who had morphed into his true dictator self... and Pietersen whom none of them could manage successfully

I really dont see an english captain I really liked save Brearley

Kapil  Dev was the best Indian cappo and Imran Pakistan

but the best Captain fuh me ever was Worrell. Worrell was tops on all levels, on and off the field..a brilliant man period

{ and of course Joey Carew    ....who if he was made west indian captain would have had a career as good as Lloyd for sure.  he was a better cappo than Lloyd and Kanhai ::LOL:: ::LOL:: }

and India too gave themselves the class and skin colour handicap..which made sure that too often India never gave their best man the job..but the man of high class instead

Chandu Borde was one such..a very dark skin  individual who would have made an excellent captain. 

one player who was deserving and got the job was Ajit Wadekar.  Wadekar was the fuss Indian  captain to beat west indies.  and he beat a ecent west indies team too

[quote author=Calypso link=topic=88087.msg552508#msg552508 date=1393889366]
......... or Rohan 
[/quote]correct is right

Border. Not just his leadership, but how he built a team - and then lead that team. That deserves a lot of admiration in itself.


Worst, IDK there are plenty. Tendulkar was pretty dire IIRC. Not just statistically, but even tactically. Ganguly deserves a lot of credit for infusing team spirit and helping them out, rising from the mess they were in at the time as well.

Some interesting points, as usual MAPPAPPEE....

[quote author=mapoui link=topic=88087.msg552520#msg552520 date=1393894191]
Smith was to prone to bad decisions for which he was never taken to task.
As Caly says he will be seen as a good Captain for his longevity in the job and the dominance of his team. However for me, like Lloyd and Ponting, when you have great players some bad decisions are overlooked as you win more than you lose. He has won around half the games he has captained losing and drawing 25% each. For around 110 Test that is phenomenal. However I agree with you on the bad decisions which for me has been more recent.

I prefer Pontin as my best recent captain
Interesting as he was not innovative and simply had a great team. I recall as soon as Warne and McGrath retired and he could not throw the ball to either to make the break throughs, cracks started showing.

Border was good but too scared as captain if not as batsman.  west indies freaked him out as a team which made him too cautious to really push home advantages he gained against west indies.
There was not a team that Windies did not 'freak out', as you put it and his record against the Windies was poor but my point about him is about the overall improvement of the discipline of the team. The series he lost were 3-1, 2-1 and 2-1 so they were not complete demolitions and they competed in that building period. I think is the acumen he bought to the team allowed Taylor to continue and since 1994 Windies has not won a series against them.

Taylor wasn't bad for Oz..Gregg Chappell too.
Agreed, both men lead from the front and Greg was tactically astute.

the english captains?  pheeew!

Brealy was brilliant.  I give him his due.  but the english captains are terrorized by their media.  I loved Michael Vaughn as batsman and he might have been a good skipper for a time but for his injury which ended his career.
I tend to agree to that we have not had great innovative Captains apart from Brearley and you are right about Vaughan. 2005 showed Captaincy at its best.

Nasser Hussein captained with one eye on he best opportunity to get out looking half decent.
Totally disagree with you on this one but I did not really like Nasser at the start as a batsman for his opening the face to the cordon. However his double hundred against the Aussies in 97 made me see another side to him. In terms of English Cricket development, he with Duncan Fletcher created a new fighting team with Central Contracts and a very structured and professional approach. Tactically he was very good and he was gritty as a batsman. Remember that Test win in almost pitch black conditions in Pakistan?

Strauss too.  he skeedadalled as soon as he cud run without questions..leaving Cookie in the deep end with a HC who had morphed into his true dictator self... and Pietersen whom none of them could manage successfully
I disagree. Strauss started as a poor Captain being over cautious and gifting the tour to the Windies. He learn fast and did well. He showed a degree of innovation and was willing to try things so he was one of the better English Captains. As a Middlesex member I am privy to certain filtered information but statistically from 2010-12 he averaged 35, 29 and 33 and that was not good enough for the standards he had set himself and his team.

I really dont see an english captain I really liked save Brearley
I am with you on this one but Vaughan could have proven to be better but for injuries as you rightly pointed out.

Kapil  Dev was the best Indian cappo and Imran Pakistan
I think Kapil did a number of things for India. He was athletic, pretty quick, batted tall and strong. Winning the World Cup in 1983 and his catch to dismiss Richards was seminal.

but the best Captain fuh me ever was Worrell. Worrell was tops on all levels, on and off the field..a brilliant man period
Great human being and may he rest in peace.

{ and of course Joey Carew    ....who if he was made west indian captain would have had a career as good as Lloyd for sure.  he was a better cappo than Lloyd and
Kanhai ::LOL:: ::LOL:: }
I did admire Carew greatly as a Trinidadian and West Indian cricketer.

[/quote]

[quote author=Kyle link=topic=88087.msg552525#msg552525 date=1393904509]
Border. Not just his leadership, but how he built a team - and then lead that team. That deserves a lot of admiration in itself.


Worst, IDK there are plenty. Tendulkar was pretty dire IIRC. Not just statistically, but even tactically. Ganguly deserves a lot of credit for infusing team spirit and helping them out, rising from the mess they were in at the time as well.I inadvertently omitted Ganguly as he was instrumental in instilling the will, fight and attitude post Kapil and Azhar.
[/quote]

Shiv was in the same category as Sachin. I think for the Windies all Captains have been ordinary post Richardson.

The only one I felt could have been good was Sarwan and now Ramdin but we will never know as neither is likely to get a look in.

[quote author= link=topic=88087.msg552460#msg552460 date=1393880047]
moot point

A debatable question, an issue open to argument; also, an irrelevant question, a matter of no importance.

For example, Whether Shakespeare actually wrote the poem remains a moot point among critics ,

or It's a moot point whether the chicken or the egg came first .

This term originated in British law where it described a point for discussion in a moot , or assembly, of law students.

By the early 1700s it was being used more loosely in the present sense.
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no kidding  ;D ;D

Ganguly is the Indian captain I forgot.

Ganguly was a good captain prolly more tactical than Kapil.

and although I criticised class in selecting Indian leadership..I consider Dev, Ganguly and Dhoni to be natural Indian captains..personalities who stood out from the team who as long as they played/play would be leader.

no matter I cant imagine Dhoni in the the Indian side and not be the captain of it

MAPPIPPEE,


Ditto.


However I recall his grit. In never really rated any of the Indian captain bear Ganguly.


I do not buy into this Dhoni thing.