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+--- Thread: Denesh Ramdin (/thread-24887.html)
Denesh Ramdin - dillinger10 - 06-01-2015
Denesh Ramdin's production - or lack thereof - has been discussed in a few threads recently so I thought I would pull some numbers on him.
Over the last 3 years, Ramdin has averaged 33.12 against all opposition not named Bangladesh and Zimbabwe. The good news: This is better than his career average (25.08) against these seven teams. The bad news: This graphic showing the averages by wicket-keepers with at least 5 games behind the stumps from this period.
![[Image: image.jpg]](http://s27.postimg.org/47j3iz9w3/image.jpg)
As we can see, Ramdin's average puts him 8th on the list. It is worth pointing out that Australia's two main wicket keepers over this period (Wade and Haddin) actually have lower averages so a big time run scoring keeper isn't always required, especially when surrounded by elite batsman.
Where Ramdin's lack of production is quite evident is compared to other captains. As captain, Ramdin has averaged 27.20 against the top 7 teams in Test cricket.
![[Image: image.jpg]](http://s13.postimg.org/omih0x3dz/image.jpg)
The only two captains with a lower average over the last three years are Mahela Jayawardene (who was at the end of his career) and Darren Sammy. Captains of the top 7 Test teams have an average above 40.
From a fielding perspective, Ramdin hasn't had much impact on the game accounting for 1.64 dismissals per innings. This puts him 10th out of 13 catchers. For comparison, Brad Haddin leads the way with 2.35 dismissals per innings, helping to make up for his deficiencies with the bat.
![[Image: image.jpg]](http://s3.postimg.org/wjbuy770z/image.jpg)
One more stat for concern: Ramdin's career average against Australia (20.81) is the second worst of his career.
Re: Denesh Ramdin - ketchim - 06-01-2015
[quote author=dillinger10 link=topic=97867.msg639429#msg639429 date=1433186476]
From a fielding perspective, Ramdin hasn't had much impact on the game accounting for 1.64 dismissals per innings.
This puts him 10th out of 13 catchers.
For comparison, Brad Haddin leads the way with 2.35 dismissals per innings, helping to make up for his deficiencies with the bat.
[/quote]
We have been fed that he is our "best " glove man !
So what will dispel that is a review of Byes, leg byes and other "extras" given to the opposition !
Re: Denesh Ramdin - dillinger10 - 06-01-2015
I'll see if I can pull up any numbers regarding extras. I am not sure if this information is readily available but if it is, I will post them here.
Re: Denesh Ramdin - Captain - 06-01-2015
how many dropped catches
Re: Denesh Ramdin - mapoui - 06-01-2015
Quote:We have been fed that he is our "best " glove man !
So what will dispel that is a review of Byes, leg byes and other "extras" given to the opposition !
what does 1.64 dismissals per game/innings represent ::confused:: ::confused:: ::confused::
lets say that all the keepers faced 500 opportunities..then we have a neat comparative. but how do they compare keepers to arrive at that list of ratings ::confused::
Re: Denesh Ramdin - dillinger10 - 06-01-2015
Unfortunately, it looks as though neither ESPN, HowStat nor Cricketarchive provides stats for missed catches, stumpings or average number of byes per inning. A shame as this would have provided useful information.
Re: Denesh Ramdin - TRINIDADDY - 06-01-2015
Interesting stats.
I personally think Ramdin should be dropped from the Test team if he doesn't bat well in the Australia series. He's a stylish batsman, and I like watching him when he gets going, but he's not good enough with the bat. I feel like he's wasted a lot of his opportunities.
Conversely, I think those "fielding stats" short-change how good he is as a keeper. (those stats are probably more representative of our bad bowling). To my eye, Ramdin looks a very good keeper, and is very good at anticipating our own spin bowlers in particular.
I can see Lloyd and Simmons fighting over Ramdin soon. Lloyd will want him out, Simmons will want a Trini captain. Lloyd will then use numbers to convince Simmons. Ramdin will then get phased out like Sammy, first from the test team.
You can make an argument for keeping Ramdin on for another year or 18 months, though. Pretty soon you will have a team full of youngsters. You can argue that you need someone with Ramdin's experience leading them and shielding them from certain types of pressure.
Re: Denesh Ramdin - dillinger10 - 06-01-2015
I dug around a little deeper and was able to manually find some numbers regarding byes conceded. Ramdin has conceded 525 byes in 67 matches - an average of 7.8 byes per game. For comparison, Ridley Jacobs averaged 4.6 byes per match, Junior Murray 5.33, Carlton Baugh 7.38, Jeffrey Dujon 9.5 and Deryck Murray 10.5.
Paul Downton has the lowest number of byes per Test at 2.8. Others in the top 5 include Dave Richardson 3.5, Khaled Mashud 3.5, Ian Smith 4.1 and Adam Parore 4.3.
Searching is messy but if there are any keepers you want me to check out, let me know and I will manually run a search.
Re: Denesh Ramdin - dillinger10 - 06-01-2015
[quote author=TRINIDADDY link=topic=97867.msg639446#msg639446 date=1433193900]
Interesting stats.
I personally think Ramdin should be dropped from the Test team if he doesn't bat well in the Australia series. He's a stylish batsman, and I like watching him when he gets going, but he's not good enough with the bat. I feel like he's wasted a lot of his opportunities.
Conversely, I think those "fielding stats" short-change how good he is as a keeper. (those stats are probably more representative of our bad bowling). To my eye, Ramdin looks a very good keeper, and is very good at anticipating our own spin bowlers in particular.
I can see Lloyd and Simmons fighting over Ramdin soon. Lloyd will want him out, Simmons will want a Trini captain. Lloyd will then use numbers to convince Simmons. Ramdin will then get phased out like Sammy, first from the test team.
You can make an argument for keeping Ramdin on for another year or 18 months, though. Pretty soon you will have a team full of youngsters. You can argue that you need someone with Ramdin's experience leading them and shielding them from certain types of pressure.
[/quote]
Having your wicket-keeper that is also your captain does present its challenges. If you were to drop Ramdin from the team, you then need to appoint a new captain and wicket-keeper.
Since 2000, only Ramdin, Dhoni, Mushfiqur Rahim, Khaled Mashud, Taibu and Moin Khan have captained their teams while also keeping wicket in more than 10 matches. While looking over Ramdin's numbers, I was interested to see just how similar they were compared to Moin Khan's. In 69 matches, Moin averaged 28.55 for his career and 27.37 as captain and wicket-keeper. In 67 matches, Ramdin has averaged 26.74 and 24.29 as captain and wicket-keeper.
Re: Denesh Ramdin - ketchim - 06-01-2015
[quote author=TRINIDADDY link=topic=97867.msg639446#msg639446 date=1433193900]
I think those "fielding stats" short-change how good he is as a keeper. (those stats are probably more representative of our bad bowling).
[/quote]
[quote author=dillinger10 link=topic=97867.msg639447#msg639447 date=1433195057]
Ramdin has conceded 525 byes in 67 matches - an average of 7.8 byes per game.
For comparison, Jeffrey Dujon 9.5 and Deryck Murray 10.5.
[/quote]
Dujon and Deryck must have had some awful Bowlers ::LOL::