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+--- Thread: **** Bravo sacked as ODI Captain **** (/thread-22116.html)
Re: **** Bravo sacked as ODI Captain **** - Mail - 12-22-2014
[quote author=boquiesse link=topic=94657.msg606964#msg606964 date=1419287158]
Why not? I think Holders numbers will improve provided he is not unduly burdened with the captaincy.
We will soon find out how he handles the captaincy.
[/quote]
Statistical logic!
Over a wider/ longer sample, the results are more realistic and therefore comparable!
I am sure this suffices for a clever man like you!
Re: **** Bravo sacked as ODI Captain **** - boquiesse - 12-22-2014
[quote author=Mail link=topic=94657.msg606969#msg606969 date=1419287692]
Statistical logic!
Over a wider/ longer sample, the results are more realistic and therefore comparable!
I am sure this suffices for a clever man like you!
[/quote]
If anything it makes the situation even worse for Bravo since he has played far more matches and his average and strike rate are no better than Holders.
I expect Holder to get better.
Re: **** Bravo sacked as ODI Captain **** - Mail - 12-22-2014
[quote author=boquiesse link=topic=94657.msg606968#msg606968 date=1419287611]
But the reality is that WI will get a beating no matter who the captain is. We can all hope that it will not happen but that is all it is, just hope.
We all hoped for a good performance in the first test and if anything is was worse than 10 years ago.
Well not many sane people can argue against this point buy as we talk about the bail against Australia, we do not know how that 1st Innings opening stance would have gone had Smith not been erroneously been given out!
We all hope they will do better in the second test but that is a somewhat forlorn hope.
In some ways yes but if you are to follow your team then it is possible, probably improbable, they would win the second test but you want them to have more fight and get to day 5. It is a process and you can get frustrated but that will change nothing!
Don't blame the current situation on H&H - the WI were bad before H&H and they are bad after H&H. WI problems go far deeper than the 3 years that H&H were in charge. Do you really see any difference with Cameron at the helm? And it will be the same if the head is bajan, Trini or mudland.
H&H actually set Windian cricket a long way as they spent most of their tenure fighting and losing conflicts with the WIPA! The Courts of Law would not adjudge matters against the WICB if it was not so!
Now Bravo and Pollard IMO should be in the side - Pollard is almost worth a place based on his fielding alone.
Their exclusion is vindictive irrespective of the names. They have been victimised because they, the WICB, wanted to bully and they stood up.
Look what came out of the players walking out of India. I was not totally happy with it but radical actions, given the WICB's incompetence, has lead to a structured Industrial Relations governance arrangement.
http://wicricnews.com/blog/wicbs-india-tour-task-force-conclusions-and-recommendations
[/quote]
Re: **** Bravo sacked as ODI Captain **** - Mail - 12-22-2014
[quote author=boquiesse link=topic=94657.msg606974#msg606974 date=1419288646]
If anything it makes the situation even worse for Bravo since he has played far more matches and his average and strike rate are no better than Holders.
I expect Holder to get better.
[/quote]
Boqui,
Statistical logic, the longer you play the more realistic your numbers are.
Given this you may, quite rightly, say Bravos numbers are ordinary.
I agree and that is a separate issue!
But you cannot equitably compare Bravo's record meaningfully with someone with a handful of games for analytical purposes.
Notwithstanding Holder may improve, but that is not the debate!
Is it?
Re: **** Bravo sacked as ODI Captain **** - anandgb - 12-22-2014
The way I see it is anyone can do just as good or better than Bravo at this stage. He is a bits & pieces player and his captaincy is poor. Besides he did not use proper judgement in India, regardless of the issues he had with his Union.
We need mature individuals who will think of consequences before acting. Nothing more or nothing less. I would be the first to admit the the WICB is not the best run organization, but to condone Bravo's action is to leave doubts in the minds of the same people we depend on to finance tours. His and his followers action is intolerable in the situation.
Re: **** Bravo sacked as ODI Captain **** - boquiesse - 12-22-2014
[quote author=anandgb link=topic=94657.msg606980#msg606980 date=1419290999]
The way I see it is anyone can do just as good or better than Bravo at this stage. He is a bits & pieces player and his captaincy is poor. Besides he did not use proper judgement in India, regardless of the issues he had with his Union.
We need mature individuals who will think of consequences before acting. Nothing more or nothing less. I would be the first to admit the the WICB is not the best run organization, but to condone Bravo's action is to leave doubts in the minds of the same people we depend on to finance tours. His and his followers action is intolerable in the situation.
[/quote]
You do realize that had the tour continued there was absolutely no way Cameron or the WICB would have entered any meaningful dialogue with the players.
It's mind boggling that players are sent on tour without seeing their contracts and then they get presented with contracts that show a substantial reduction in pay.
The likes of Jason Holder and those that come after will at least benefit from having their contracts in hand well before a tour starts.
Re: **** Bravo sacked as ODI Captain **** - anandgb - 12-23-2014
Quote:You do realize that had the tour continued there was absolutely no way Cameron or the WICB would have entered any meaningful dialogue with the players.That is not true at all. If you examine the whole situation, the ring leaders (Bravo, Pollard & Sammy) were only slated for teh ODIs and T20, so they made sure of their pay for the most part and they also had commitments to play T20 League immediately after that. Who were teh cricketers who were financially affected?
The test players. They acted in a selfish manner without regards for their team mates who would not be earning the lucrative T20 money and would also lose the money for the test matches. IMHO they should have taken action before the games started. Why did they not wait for teh 4 days to talk to Hinds and Cameron? It sounds childish to me. Did they think of all teh sponsorship $$ their hosts would lose? Hell no.
They had another scheduled tour set up with RSA that they could have used as a bargaining chip, but we all know that they had signed for KFC as well that would clash with the tour to RSA. Would they prefer to play for West Indies instead of the lucrative $$ from teh T20 leagues?
Re: **** Bravo sacked as ODI Captain **** - Kwami - 12-23-2014
If this here boy Jason Holder is anything like his pappy Vanburn Holder then we in good hands
Re: **** Bravo sacked as ODI Captain **** - boquiesse - 12-23-2014
[quote author=anandgb link=topic=94657.msg606992#msg606992 date=1419310569]
That is not true at all. If you examine the whole situation, the ring leaders (Bravo, Pollard & Sammy) were only slated for teh ODIs and T20, so they made sure of their pay for the most part and they also had commitments to play T20 League immediately after that. Who were teh cricketers who were financially affected?
[/quote]
We will have to agree to disagree because it is my understanding that the players left without signing contracts for the tour and the contracts were then presented to them when they were in India.
I will see what I can dig up and post.
Re: **** Bravo sacked as ODI Captain **** - boquiesse - 12-23-2014
Here is Michael Holding's take on what happened:
Quote:[size=1.35em]The players arrived in India without contracts, and did not have a clue as to what they were getting. People could say it is their fault, because you should not be going to a job without knowing what you would be paid. But it is a regular feature of West Indies cricket. When I was playing, and perhaps even before my playing days, people went on tours not knowing what their salaries were. You had a fair idea based on what you got the last time, and possibly there would be a small increase, but you wouldn’t expect it to go down.[/size]
The rest of the article: WICB have hung the players out to dry