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+--- Thread: SHIV(11,327) Well On His Way To Overtaking The Great Lara(11,953) (/thread-13372.html)
Re: Will SHIV(10,830) Be Allowed To Overtake LARA(11,953) ? - TRINIDADDY - 06-13-2014
cricketer gets his position on a cricket squad because of his consistent performance and if that is so Chanderpaul would have passed Lara already.
Chanderpaul is on the squad. He is on the squad because of his consistent performance. Chanderpaul is globally recognised as a consistent performer. Even the inept WICB recognise this.
And saying Chanderpaul "would have passed", "will pass" or "has passed" Lara is like saying Chanders is better than Viv or Sobers. Ain't true and never will be. Even if we compare him to Dravid and S. Waugh, great gritty accumulators who are Chanders' closest comparisons, Chanders simply doesnt have as many classic or meaningful knocks. Remember, Waugh averaged 62 from 93 to 2002. This is comparable to Chanders over the past 5 years. But in that time Waugh was facing Donald, Wasim, Younis, Ambrose and Walsh and making classic knocks. And of course Dravid was winning games vs Australia and England, something even Tendulkar couldn't do. Chanders doesnt have these kind of classic innings, and that's despite being a better batsman in theory (he has more shots than both Dravid and Waugh, and can effortlessly switch gears and accelerate on the drop of a dime if he chooses to).
I think we actually MISSED OUT on the best of Chanders. If Sarwan wasn't screwed up and booted, it would be SARS and CHANDERS batting together in the middle order this past 8 years, and no doubt they would have done what Ganguly, Tendy and Dravid did in their time. You need someone to bat with you, and Chanders never had that kind of stability.
Re: Will SHIV(10,830) Be Allowed To Overtake LARA(11,953) ? - ketchim - 06-13-2014
The 39-year-old Guyanese is currently the sixth-highest Test run-scorer in history with :
.................................................................................11,327 runs
Only the legendary Brian Lara is ahead of him with 11,953 runs.
Re: Will SHIV(10,830) Be Allowed To Overtake LARA(11,953) ? - ketchim - 06-13-2014
[quote author=TRINIDADDY link=topic=83851.msg569166#msg569166 date=1402672153]
Remember, Waugh averaged 62 from 93 to 2002.
This is comparable to Chanders over the past 5 years.
But in that time Waugh was facing Donald, Wasim, Younis, Ambrose and Walsh
[/quote]
You were doing well until that ... :-[
South African fast bowlers will tell you about that double Century
A stint as West Indies captain followed in 2005-06, and though he celebrated with a double-century in front of his home fans in Guyana, it was clear that captaincy was affecting his batting, and in 2006 he gave it up to concentrate on his main job.
Re: Will SHIV(10,830) Be Allowed To Overtake LARA(11,953) ? - ketchim - 06-13-2014
http://www.shivisgreat.com/centuries-by-shivnarine-chanderpaul/
Have a Look at all these bowling attacks...
Re: Will SHIV(10,830) Be Allowed To Overtake LARA(11,953) ? - ketchim - 06-13-2014
28 TEST tons are listed in above posted LINK .
Trini , click on it and tell me de Lampy Pampy bowling that Shiv faced .
thanks
Re: Will SHIV(10,830) Be Allowed To Overtake LARA(11,953) ? - TRINIDADDY - 06-13-2014
Waugh was going to other's peoples homes and blocking out the best fast bowlers of the era until they commited suicide. Nobody averages higher vs Donald, Wasim, Waqar, Khan, Ambrose, Bishop and Walsh.
Chanders' 203 - as great as it was (probably the best love letter to Guyana on Guyanese home soil) - wasnt even the best WI knock in that game. And as a whole, his career lacks the classic knocks we associate with greats. I attibute this not to lack-of-skill, but just bad luck and bad management.
You linked to a list of his ODI centuries (oh, I see you edited your above link). My point though, is that Shiv mostly dodged the best bowlers and doesnt have the classic test knocks we associate with greats (the big, series defining games).
I know Shiv is thought of as a test man, but I think most of his great knocks were ODIS. This ODI innings by him was one of his best. This was basically 2 Guyanese absolutely slaughtering South Africa for 200 minutes:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64604.html
This innings vs Wasim was anothe masterclass:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/65197.html
Shiv only has one good score in ODIS vs Warne and Mcgrath bowling together, but played Warne effortlessly when Warne was alone.
Look at the bowling line up in this game and look at Shiv's batting position. This is where SHIV SHOULD HAVE BATTED IN ODIS SINCE 1995:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/65191.html
Why?
This is why:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64865.html
HE IS WASTED IN THE MIDDLE ORDER IN ALL FORMATS.
When you put him TOO LOW, THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/209297.html
Shiv and Lara doing their thing:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/65663.html
SHIV back up the order:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/256606.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/257772.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/267706.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/352666.html
There is no doubt in my mind that Shiv would have been regarded as one of the finest ODI batsmen if he was consistently allowed to open. Look at what Tendular was doing as an opener in the 90s. Batting slowly, carefully getting a 100, then accelerating at get out at 110-120, virtually every other game. Shiv could easily do this this. It fits his style perfectly. No pressure, reliable and solid. Makes me so angry how tactically inept the coaches and selectors are, then the moment he gets the opening spot in ODIS they drop him for no reason.
Re: Will SHIV(10,830) Be Allowed To Overtake LARA(11,953) ? - TRINIDADDY - 06-13-2014
Regarding your deleted post, I've been referring to Steve Waugh, not his bro Mark.
Remember, all through the 90s Chanders wasnt converting 70s-90s to 100s. So most of his best innings in that era weren't centuries. Conversely, most of his centuries during the 21st century have been vs crap attacks (he has 2 centuries vs Steyn, but Steyn was bowling sh**).
These his best:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63773.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63819.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63882.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63729.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63730.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63882.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64093.html
I love this one because its a rare win, and Sars helped out:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64027.html
The problem is, nobody with a 40 strike rate gonna win a game for you. Imagine if you put Shiv, in tests, in position three and dedicate 5 hours to him getting 150 runs. Every other player, you then give a mission to lash balls fast and make 30-40. That's all you need.
Re: Will SHIV(10,830) Be Allowed To Overtake LARA(11,953) ? - ketchim - 06-13-2014
[quote author=TRINIDADDY link=topic=83851.msg569201#msg569201 date=1402675573]
Remember, all through the 90s Chanders wasnt converting 70s-90s to 100s.
[/quote]
A Floating Bone in yuh Foot is tough Pain ...
Re: Will SHIV(10,830) Be Allowed To Overtake LARA(11,953) ? - TRINIDADDY - 06-13-2014
Yeah, he basically had terrible luck. Imagine Shiv with no bone problem, slightly better teammates, and being allowed to open or come in one down in tests and odis. Two decades of this, and you would have Tendulkar-level stats. The title of this thread would then be vastly different.
If fishes were wishes...
Re: Will SHIV(10,830) Be Allowed To Overtake LARA(11,953) ? - ketchim - 06-13-2014
I having King fish stew with potatoes and brown rice for Lunch :
wishes do come true ::LOL::