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+--- Thread: Convoluted Ketchim! No Comment on Cooperative W.I CRicket (/thread-33028.html)
Re: Convoluted Ketchim! No Comment on Cooperative W.I CRicket - mapoui - 10-27-2016
[quote author=ketchim link=topic=106776.msg717972#msg717972 date=1477587736]
Although the Afro-Guyanese middle class was uneasy with Burnham's leftist leanings
the PNC remained a shield against Indo-Guyanese dominance !
[/quote]
but aryu dominate fuh more dan 20 years afterwards. pure naked corruption same way. wat diff does a lesser shade of blackness and hair format make ::confused:: ::confused::
none at all. same greed, hair curly or straight :-[ :-[ :-[
Re: Convoluted Ketchim! No Comment on Cooperative W.I CRicket - ketchim - 10-27-2016
A program of national service was introduced that placed an emphasis on self-reliance,
loosely defined as Guyana's population feeding, clothing, and housing itself
without outside help
Re: Convoluted Ketchim! No Comment on Cooperative W.I CRicket - ketchim - 10-27-2016
Government authoritarianism increased in 1974 when Burnham advanced the
""paramountcy of the party."
All organs of the state would be considered agencies of the ruling PNC
and subject to its control. The state and the PNC became interchangeable;
PNC objectives were now public policy. ..
Re: Convoluted Ketchim! No Comment on Cooperative W.I CRicket - mapoui - 10-27-2016
[quote author=ketchim link=topic=106776.msg717975#msg717975 date=1477587799]
The support of the Afro-Guyanese community allowed the PNC
to bring the economy under control
and to begin organizing the country into cooperatives.
[/quote]
wat cooperatives. yuh mad or wat. dat was only talk. who leftist Kabaka yuh talkin' about ::confused:: ::confused::
is the CIA put him deh. leftist was not part of the deal..cud not have been part. cooperative talk is as far as dat cud go. and cooperative despite general ownership is still capitalist
Re: Convoluted Ketchim! No Comment on Cooperative W.I CRicket - mapoui - 10-27-2016
Quote:Maps, see how Co Ops turns out ?
Mondragon as the chief example has been a great success...
there are many more....
there are credit unions also that do very well
Re: Convoluted Ketchim! No Comment on Cooperative W.I CRicket - ketchim - 10-27-2016
Maps, this is how Co Ops devolve :
As 1979 wore on, the level of violence continued to escalate.
In October Minister of Education Vincent Teekah was mysteriously shot to death.
The following year,Dr. Walter Rodney was killed by a car bomb.
The PNC government quickly accused Rodney of being a terrorist who had died
at the hands of his own bomb and charged his brother Donald with being an
accomplice.
Later investigation implicated the Guyanese government..
Re: Convoluted Ketchim! No Comment on Cooperative W.I CRicket - mapoui - 10-27-2016
yes..I remember! except I dont know what was the resolution of the case against Rodneys brother. did they let him go ::confused::
I never took cooperative state seriously...everyone knew it was a joke.
west indians cyar run nutten....and I mean ALL west indians. every last of corrupt them
Re: Convoluted Ketchim! No Comment on Cooperative W.I CRicket - mapoui - 10-27-2016
[quote author=The Captain link=topic=106776.msg717945#msg717945 date=1477575799]
coop killed the people in GY
brought on big time racism
[/quote]
did the man actually tried cooperative schemes and projects ::confused::
Re: Convoluted Ketchim! No Comment on Cooperative W.I CRicket - TRINIDADDY - 10-27-2016
Quote:impse ketchim. his fave buddy poster TD give him Mondragon.
You and Ketchim are funny. You're an idealist, Ketchim is a realist. I'm a kind of cynical idealist, bouncing between you.
It took about 500 years for capitalism to replace feudalism. Imagine that. For 500 years, humans accepted and saw little wrong with something as obviously rediculous as feudalism. Feudalism was deemed natural. It was normal. There was no alternative. Kings and Queens might be bad, the serfs said, but it's the best we can do!
In the same way, nobody can imagine an alternative to today's world. And you can't force them to. Humans are just damn retarded.
So Ketchim is right. Imagine trying to organise a cricket co-op in the West Indies. The rastamen wouldn't see the point. The Trinis would be suspicious of the Guyanese. The Guyanese would want to all the sweet admin jobs and the Yardies would be busy planting weed. You'd need a genius to organise this and convince people to help get the ball rolling. It's impossible.
But of course Mapoui is also right. Historically, demanding the impossible is what gets things done. The reasonable man adapts himself to the world. The unreasonable man tries to adapt the world to himself. So all progress depends on the unreasonable man. We need a world with more goofy, unreasonable Mapouis.
Anyway (ignore the following if you're uninterested in theory) Marx wrote extensively about co-ops like Mondragon. He said:
"However excellent in principle and however useful in practice, co-operative labour will never be able to arrest the growth of monopoly, free the masses, or even perceptibly lighten the burden of their miseries. To save the masses, co-operative labour ought to be developed to national dimensions and, consequently, be fostered by national means."
So Marx was cynical about isolated co-operatives. He said:
1. They don't abolish the money-value form
2. They are subject to the economic and political subordination of the capitalist economy and its state
3. They become an exploiter of their suppliers, who are capitalist in nature
4. They are forced to expand infinitely, gobbling up all of society, if they are to fix the problem stated in 3.
5. And if they do 4, they get crushed by 2, leading to mayhem and worse conditions
Yet Marx said that they should nevertheless be developed. He was cynical and pessimistic, but still thought that isolated co-ops served a function. He said they were, quote, "a transformative force. Their great merit being that they practically show that the present system can be superseded by a beneficent system".
So he thought co-ops represented a kind of symbolic alternative; as a system driven by the needs of communities and not by profit, they served as way to inspire people. A way to get people thinking of practical and living example of alternative systems.
Quote:Recall the Kabaka declared Guyana a Co-Operative in February 1970
Burnham was installed to stop Jagan, an avowed Marxist. The Guyanese wanted Jagan. He captured most of the votes, but Eisenhower freaked out and the Americans had him removed with the help of the Brits, who suspended the Guyanese constitution after elections were held. Still Jagan kept winning votes. The Guyanese loved him. They wanted him. Then the CIA and the Brits engineered strikes and pumped money into Burnham. Burnham got power, the Guyanese realized they hated him, so he pretended to be Jagan, and so socialist, to placate them.
No "attempt at socialism" will be allowed by the big nations, because such things cut into profits. In a similar way, few "attempts at capitalism" were allowed in the 1600s-1700s, because they cut into the rights of Kings and monarchs.
Which is not to say that Guyanese socialism would have worked. In an alternative universe, a super lefty Jagan may have got power and been ignored by the world, and yet still run Guyana into the ground. Organising entire countries is a very big, almost impossibly science fictional thing. Something as small as Mondragon took almost half a century to figure itself out.
Quote:and black people cannot run anything !
Why did the Guyanese run backwards?
He wanted to gain weight.
F**K GUYANA.
TRINIDAD FOREVER.
USA USA USA.
Re: Convoluted Ketchim! No Comment on Cooperative W.I CRicket - ketchim - 10-27-2016
[quote author=TRINIDADDY link=topic=106776.msg718003#msg718003 date=1477590165]
Something as small as Mondragon took almost half a century to figure itself out.
[/quote]
Guyana is close to half a century as a Co Operative !
and still cannot figure it out !
Cricket will end up in a similar disaster , if this concept is embraced !~